Soldering Rails?

Soldering rails in the manner you have described may prove to be an issue with expansion and contraction.  Not that your environment's temperatures are going to vary drastically, but solder is not meant to be a structural element.  I don't know what metal Atlas uses for it's track, so I cannot give you any suggestions on how to solder it.  

I really don't think the joints are what you should be concerned with as far as sound goes.  Using some method of sound deadening under the track is more important.   

On our upstairs layout (ALL Atlas solid nickel silver track), I soldered EVERY SINGLE rail joiner/joint on the whole layout! I then cut gaps where required with a fine tooth razor saw, as a Dremel makes way too large of a gap. All the VinylBed was first glued in place with TightBond Professional glue, then the Atlas track was glued & screwed down on the VinlyBed. A day or so later, after the TightBond glue was fully set, I removed ALL the screws.  I have never experienced ANY "expansion/contraction issues, ever since the layout has been finished (maybe 5 years now?). 

The Atlas solid nickel silver rail is not all that easy to solder together, as each end of the rails MUST be properly cleaned, especially the blacked center rail (obviously the blackening MUST be removed). I use an older Dremel with a small pointed rotary file bit, to clean/roughen the rails prior to tinning them, and soldering them together, inside the rail joiners.

Hot Water posted:

On our upstairs layout (ALL Atlas solid nickel silver track), I soldered EVERY SINGLE rail joiner/joint on the whole layout! I then cut gaps where required with a fine tooth razor saw, as a Dremel makes way too large of a gap. All the VinylBed was first glued in place with TightBond Professional glue, then the Atlas track was glued & screwed down on the VinlyBed. A day or so later, after the TightBond glue was fully set, I removed ALL the screws.  I have never experienced ANY "expansion/contraction issues, ever since the layout has been finished (maybe 5 years now?). 

The Atlas solid nickel silver rail is not all that easy to solder together, as each end of the rails MUST be properly cleaned, especially the blacked center rail (obviously the blackening MUST be removed).  I use an older Dremel with a small pointed rotary file bit, to clean/roughen the rails prior to tinning them, and soldering them together, inside the rail joiners.

Ok, that is encouraging!  Do you have any pictures on hand?

 

Jack Swan5010 posted:

Hot Water posted:

On our upstairs layout (ALL Atlas solid nickel silver track), I soldered EVERY SINGLE rail joiner/joint on the whole layout! I then cut gaps where required with a fine tooth razor saw, as a Dremel makes way too large of a gap. All the VinylBed was first glued in place with TightBond Professional glue, then the Atlas track was glued & screwed down on the VinlyBed. A day or so later, after the TightBond glue was fully set, I removed ALL the screws.  I have never experienced ANY "expansion/contraction issues, ever since the layout has been finished (maybe 5 years now?). 

The Atlas solid nickel silver rail is not all that easy to solder together, as each end of the rails MUST be properly cleaned, especially the blacked center rail (obviously the blackening MUST be removed).  I use an older Dremel with a small pointed rotary file bit, to clean/roughen the rails prior to tinning them, and soldering them together, inside the rail joiners.

Ok, that is encouraging!  Do you have any pictures on hand?

 

See OGR "Great Layout Adventures Volume 8".

The easiest and fastest way to solder Atlas or any other track is with a resistance soldering iron.  One advantage is that you don't heat the plastic ties.  A resistance iron is expensive but it is worth the cost if you are going to solder a lot of track.  You will find many other applications for your resistance iron once you have finished with the track project.

NH Joe

I am considering soldering the rail joiners to the rails on my layout to ensure better signal connectivity through the rails. Does anyone think this is worth the time? I am going to wire blocks ever 12 track sections. Would soldering extend the block section to 15 sections? Thanks in advance 

Jack Swan5010 posted:

Also, I should add that I am a very extinguished solderer and I would have no problems using a soldering iron for an extended period of time.  

One would hope that you're also experienced.

As far as soldering rails, you will find out quickly that they will crack at the joints.  When we solder jumpers for continuity on our modular club tracks, I use a small piece of wire and solder that across the track joints.  I've found that when I take the shortcut and solder the joint itself, the bond pretty quickly breaks and I have the same problem as before.  I see no reason to assume that your idea will not suffer the same fate.

I would use a small piece of wire (solid bell wire) with a U bend in it for flexibility and solder that across the track joints.  If you want to do the most good with least work solder the center rail only or at least first as there are two common rails.

My layout is almost all blocked with sections of five or so O27 track pieces so soldering is not that important and done where needed.

Charlie

Soldering the rail joints in my opinion is a great deal of effort for minimal return.  I am using Atlas track and btw a big fan of the way it looks.  I have it screwed into homasote with foam roadbed underneath it.  It is extremely  quiet.  The only downside to Atlas track is availability and/or cost. Give a second look at Ross or Gargraves. Nothing wrong with American made.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Jack Swan5010 posted:

Also, I should add that I am a very extinguished solderer and I would have no problems using a soldering iron for an extended period of time.  

One would hope that you're also experienced.

As far as soldering rails, you will find out quickly that they will crack at the joints.  When we solder jumpers for continuity on our modular club tracks, I use a small piece of wire and solder that across the track joints.  I've found that when I take the shortcut and solder the joint itself, the bond pretty quickly breaks and I have the same problem as before.  I see no reason to assume that your idea will not suffer the same fate.

I've never soldered the joints, but I know someone who did who had the same problem with the solder joints cracking.  I wondered if it was due to the track contracting and expanding slightly due to temperature changes. 

MJCAT posted:

I've never soldered the joints, but I know someone who did who had the same problem with the solder joints cracking.  I wondered if it was due to the track contracting and expanding slightly due to temperature changes. 

Yep!

Another problem with solder joints is that you may want to change a piece of track or the track layout from time to time.  You will need to unsolder the joints to get the track out.  I agree with most others that it is much better and easier to just solder a small piece of wire across the joint.   This is what we have done on the G&O garden railroad.  I haven't bothered to solder any joints on my home layout.  It has worked fine for the last 10 years.  Both the G&O and my home layout use Atlas track.

NH Joe

One word on soldering joints, DON'T!

Solder feeders to all of your rails, because joiners are not for electrical connection. They are only for track alignment.

Norfolk Southern C&S Department welds/solders copper wires (use of blasting caps) across joints when a weld is not going to be done on the rails, or the weld will not be done in the immediate future. So if you do solder a piece of wire for conduction across the joint, you are still following NS approved engineering for signal across jointed rail. So you're prototypical  

Thx.....I like that ....I'm prototypical....lol......yeah I'm going to go with the wire across......

Funny...I was just rail fanning NS a couple days ago and noticed that.  I still don't have a track plan...I am a huge procrastinator.  After reading this I have let this idea go.  I guess it would be cool but not practical.  

Jack, I'm glad we were able to persuade you not to do this. There are so many more useful things you can be doing on your railroad, with the time and money. Both are things model railroaders usually find in short supply.

More feeders are a better choice. I have feeders every 10 feet and use as many long sections of track as possible. I use 14 gauge wire for all track feeders. There is only a .1 volt drop from the transformer terminal to the track.

My attempts at soldering power drops to the rails did not go well at all.  The metal used in the rails requires a lot of prep... and one second too long with the iron and you will melt the plastic loose from the ties.  it was far easier to solder the wires to the bottoms of te rail joiners.  A lot less prep work. 

I used a scrap of plywood and cut some grooves which just happen to be wise enough to hold the rail joiners upside down perfectly .

Solid feeder wires? Yikes. IMO stranded wire is way easier to work with for most of our needs. But that's only me. 

Rod

Correction for an existing layout/Fort Pitt Modular group.   Using Gargraves track/Ross switches, eventually the joints loosen, from the continual use.  Improved track conductivity was done by soldering each joint in place.  A small piece of 18 ga solid wire was solder across each track joint. (3 solder joints, all three rails).  Done instead of ripping all, and starting over again. 

I don't like soldering to the joiners, you're just adding one connection to go bad. Kinda' defeats the purpose of soldering in the first place.

I've never had any issue soldering to Atlas track, and I don't remember ever melting any of the plastic ties.  I like to come from the bottom, cut out the little piece of plastic between two ties, prep the surface using the Dremel to remove the anodize and rough it up, and just it it with the solder gun.  The key when you're doing solid rail is additional heat for a much shorter time seems to be less damaging than trying to use a small iron and heating forever to get it hot enough to solder.

If the track is already down, then I just hit the bottom of the track and hook the wire there and solder it.  Prep is key to doing it fast enough to avoid melting the ties.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't like soldering to the joiners, you're just adding one connection to go bad. Kinda' defeats the purpose of soldering in the first place.

I've never had any issue soldering to Atlas track, and I don't remember ever melting any of the plastic ties.  I like to come from the bottom, cut out the little piece of plastic between two ties, prep the surface using the Dremel to remove the anodize and rough it up, and just it it with the solder gun.  The key when you're doing solid rail is additional heat for a much shorter time seems to be less damaging than trying to use a small iron and heating forever to get it hot enough to solder.

If the track is already down, then I just hit the bottom of the track and hook the wire there and solder it.  Prep is key to doing it fast enough to avoid melting the ties.

How about a video tutorial showing how you do that . Also the make of the iron and model # as well as the solder and flux. I too cant seem to get it to work without melting issues.

Our club is shutdown right now, so I don't have any Atlas track handy that I need to solder.  I use a Weller 100/140 soldering gun, and Kester 63/37 Rosin core flux.  If I feel the need for a dab of extra flux, I have a jar of Rosin flux, it's Deoxit brand.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Our club is shutdown right now, so I don't have any Atlas track handy that I need to solder.  I use a Weller 100/140 soldering gun, and Kester 63/37 Rosin core flux.  If I feel the need for a dab of extra flux, I have a jar of Rosin flux, it's Deoxit brand.

Thanks John, you just answered my next post.