Status of Atlas O Master Line Locomotive Development

Len,

I am not sure about the development but I know the latest run of F3's are due here in September as I been told. I ordered the MKT's. They are supposed to have an upgraded sound system - we will see.

Joe

Production issues aside, I believe the real driving force for Atlas O was the late Jim Weaver.  It seems Atlas O hasn't been the same since he died.

Rusty

I chatted with folks this week, and I believe the pace will pick up there shortly. They are about out of the woods. New tooling on trucks and the switch controller gives me some additional confidence as they wouldn't have spent money on those products if they were going to quit. 

As one of the reefer crazies, glad to see the new 40 foot reefers are on the water. 

The F's will be terrific, and soon, and I am thinking the RS1's after that. The bicentennial SusieQ was based on a photo Jim took as a young man. I am going to display mine proudly in rememberance of him. 

I appreciate the rapid replies. Jim was indeed a driving force, and I have tried to give Atlas O every benefit of the doubt since his passing. I am sure it is not easy for a small company to rebound from so many 'perfect storm' issues, which is why I have been patient. I have always loved Master Line locomotive products and own more of them than any other manufacturer, and possibly more than many real railroads own of a particular model. I look forward to them returning to their glory days of the early 2000s and am ready and waiting to help.

Considering the Tman GE-8 announced in June 2010 is still on the TBA list its unlikely Atlas would announce a new Masterline Diesel. Bear in mind it would probably run 20 to 25% more list price than current MTH offerings,let alone the amount of time it would take to get produced. Its clear Atlas budget investment in O guage has been reduced[for a number of reasons we can only speculate on]

If you hadn't noticed, that bicentennial RS-1 has been cancelled according to the announcement description.  If true, that's gonna be a disappointment for sure. 

As for Atlas-O Master Series locomotive offerings in general, there was always a niche market of sorts where prototypical, highly detailed models outweighed the need for the latest and greatest control system features.  As long as their locomotives can offer smooth-as-silk slow-speed performance, they still might have a market out there... But the sound/audio gap is admittedly growing wider. And frankly, Railsounds 4 just doesn't cut it these days for premium priced locomotives.  Legacy "You are There" Railsounds has raised the bar significantly, so it will be interesting to see where Atlas-O goes with the F3 and RS-1 units due out within a "few months".  (I put that in quotes, since neither made the most recent Atlas-O boat to leave China... and when the next boat will leave is anyone's guess.)

Perhaps we'll get a better feel from what we hear at York during the Atlas-O booth seminars.  But regardless, the proof is always seeing REAL shipping dates filled in under those "container shipping" and "Atlas shipping to dealers" column headings!

David

Another issue, for me and some of my fellow 3-Rail SCALE modelers, is the fact that Atlas simply will NOT offer their 3-Rail locomotive models with fixed pilots, full length vertical hand railings, and scale couplers. Even if Atlas would accept "special orders" for such models, they would then be more competitive with MTH diesels.

You are talking about a niche market in a niche market in a micro market. Just not feasible for a small firm like Atlas to engineer two different locos when their hands are full getting one done. Like the companies I work for in the hobby field even MTH is considered a micro company.....Atlas, Weaver even more so. I can't say about them but most of the companies I do work for have under 5 employees yet turn out thousands of items a year. but asking more is from them is very hard and costly. 

Just my opinion, but I don't by that response. Atlas O already offers two different product lines on O scale, i.e. 3-Rail models AND 2-Rail models. It simply could not be THAT difficult to simply put "Hi-Rail" wheel sets into their 2-Rail models, prior to the installation of the respective electronics. Naturally, buy "special order only". However, when their representatives are questioned about this, they simply will not respond.

Did you ever think that's their polite way of giving you an answer?    "Not responding" is really a response.

David

Atlas has zero choice here.  It's either TMCC or plain old AC for 3-rail.  MTH does not make DCS available to 3rd parties any more than Lionel makes Legacy available to 3rd parties.  If MTH or Lionel had their way Atlas (and 3rd Rail, etc) would leave the 3-rail market to them exclusively.  American companies do not like any competition.   In fact a large number here seem to endorse MTH and Lionel keeping it proprietary.  So it's not going to change.  If it is a big deal to you and others you need to not buy Atlas so they will quit the market so MTH and Lionel will get their way.

I absolutely agree! And as such, I have spent my last dollar on ANY Atlas product for over a year now. THAT is my response!

I bought the first eight California Zephyr cars with the anticipation that I could complete a reasonable facsimile of the Zephyr before I was dead. Now, I think I may not make it. By the time the observation car comes out, I'll be gone and my son will have all of you clicking, "Buy It Now."

They are making sound improvements on their own because they are limited by RailSounds. All of the new diesel made will have features added because Lionel is not allowing Atlas to use Legacy Sounds. Call them in New Jersey.

Andrew

The comments posted regarding Atlas' finest days being whem Jim Weaver was alive is spot on!  Jim would take the time to listen, and be appreciative of comments, both good and bad.  The current person in charge of R & D at Atlas is nothing more than the equivalent of a used car salesman, IMHO.  Either you want to buy our product, or you don't, but don't bother us with your complaints.....  The customer service aspect has also gone downhill.   Just my .02.

Of course they need to live within the realm of what's available to them.  No secret there.  But getting those digital bits and bytes from the sound file to our ears is a whole other ballgame, where they can exercise whatever technology they want to crank up the sounds to another level.  That's what I'm talking about.  (When I mentioned Railsounds 4 doesn't cut it, I meant it in the way Lionel implemented sounds back in the pre-RS5 and pre-Legacy days... which is pretty much the way Atlas-O has been doing it by default.)

Now 3rd Rail has done a very decent job in this regard.  Their locomotives don't have the gimicky crewtalk and towercom that comes with Lionel Legacy engines, but I think their target consumer is quite happy with sounds from their recent locomotives.  Sure, there's always room for improvement, but they're definitely headed in the right direction.

David

I think more than a few of us feel this way now... and Atlas-O has clearly missed their mark for CZ fans -- given the timeframe expectation that was originally stated.  The cars, on the other hand, are fabulous models at a fantastic price-point for the level of detail.

Quite honestly, I'd be ECSTATIC to see a domed observation next year.  But I'm thinking it's more likely gonna be 2015 at the earliest.  After all, they haven't even officially announced it for dealers to take orders yet!  

Aside from the observation car, I'm now awaiting a diner which should be out in their next batch of cars.  And if we ever see a baggage car announced/produced, I'd consider it a bonus "nice-to-have".  Anything else in the CZ world from Atlas-O... I think would be purely wishful thinking at this point.  Consider it a MAJOR "mid-course correction" on their part.  

Let's just hope they follow through with at least the observation car after the diners arrive.

David

But that would mean another SKU (stock number and product) and each one cost a company something....from ordering and warehousing to distributor and dealer getting product info and keeping it all separate.   You're right....it's not rocket science but they must feel they can't recoup the cost of another SKU in the line.

Before Atlas goes away as some are foreseeing here I wish they would finish their line of F3s.  So far, they're the ONLY company I can find that offer a single A unit.  I'm not buying any A/A, A/B, A/B/A, or A/B/B/A sets from the other makers, period.

I've bought very few Atlas products, I don't follow their website or offerings, and I never think about them when I am shopping. That is strange considering that they make some excellent products.  On reflextion though,  I guess the reason is that I just don't consider a company to be a major O-gauge manufacturer unless they lead with a line of good locomotives.  Even RMT, which is pretty limited in its range of offerings, but which website I visit weekly to check any updates, leads with its BEEPS, BANGs, and BEEFs.   Atlas has made some good O-gauge stuff in the past.  I wish they'd do it again.

There is no question Atlas has taken their marketing position down a few notches in the O market, I do not doubt the sound issue has become a problem for them to remain competetive with engines. However I am suprised that the Zepher project has become a problem for them to get produced in a timely fashion. I believe they have far to big an investment in tooling for all O projects to phase themselves out of the market as long as their return on investment is on target for the profit margin they need.JMHO

Andrew,

Where did you hear that they are making sound improvements on their own?

Reason I ask is that if by "sound improvements" you mean Atlas O are recording & burning their own sound chips to plug into the Lionel boards, from what I understand of the TMCC licensing agreement, they would be violating that agreement.

I suppose it's possible that if they use a separate driver/sound board that doesn't interface with Lionel's own boards then it would be kosher; I seem to recall reading up that 3rd Rail did something like this on their Jawn Henry in order to get a specific sound effect that wasn't available with Lionel's RS4 licensed sound sets, someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

The track system alone must represent a sizable chunk of the layout-builders' market.  And while other alternatives clearly exist, Atlas-O would be leaving a huge chunk of revenue on the table were they to exit O-Gauge en masse.

Same thing for the rolling stock... they have a well-established reputation for delivering some of the most highly detailed models on the market.  That's their niche.  And while I've long ago cured myself of "reefer madness", Atlas-O seems to have broadened their rolling stock offerings enough to keep me interested in a few items every now and then (i.e., Gunderson's, trailers and scale flat-cars, the CZ train, etc...).  Whether that's enough to meet their revenue and profitability targets?  Only the Atlas-O bean-counters know that answer.

As for locomotive offerings?  That's admittedly been the largest casualty of their product line, given the very sad and untimely passing of Jim Weaver.  Without Jim's enthusiasm and leadership, that's where we're likely to see this segment of the product line falter for awhile.  And the widening gap between current sound features and dated TMCC licensing limitations is bound to continue taking its toll without innovative leadership at the helm.  How long before they pull the plug on motive power offerings is complete speculation on our part.  But that part of the product line is wearing a target on its backside for sure.

David

I wish that they would have offered a B&O A/B set to run a passenger train! 

Jim

I am going to address a number of the issues listed in the thread. 

First, Atlas isn't going anywhere.  We had a couple of rough years, first with Jim's health issues and death, then with production issues and moving production for all of our products from primarily one factory to a number of smaller factories.  This, in and of itself, was a massive undertaking.

Second, while we had every intention of producing the California Zephyr cars in the 18-24 month window as mentioned, the need to locate a new factory and move the tooling put a serious crimp in those plans.  The third and fourth cars are in production now, and should be shipping to us within the next month or two.  The following two cars have been drawn and are in review by our product development team, and the planning for the releases after that has been moving along.  I am not going to give a time frame for completion, but we are intent on doing all of the cars in the train as originally announced.

Third, the F units are also getting very close to production.  We have seen decorated samples, and have been testing running samples.  Once these are delivered, we will move on to other locomotives that had been announced previously, such as the Master RS-1, and the Trainman RS3, U23B and Dash 8-40CW.  We have purposely not been announcing any new or rerun locomotives in order to give the factory a chance to get their feet under them and get some sort of realistic production schedule in place.  As they catch up on delayed items and get a handle on how long it takes to produce a given product, we will be in a better position to ramp up the product announcements.

All of the issues that you have seen in the O Gauge/Scale line have also been present in HO and N scales.  We have been working through them as best and as quickly as we can, and appreciate the support, patience and understanding that you have given us.  While we are not completely out from under the issues, we are getting closer to having things return to as normal as possible, and look forward to that day when we can once again be announcing new products and new tooling on a more regular basis.

Good Day Paul,

Thank you for the update. I wish Atlas the best!

On a side note, tell Jerry hello for me.

Best Regards,

Frank

naveenrajan,

I know of at least three former CZ cars that are now privately owned and, being "Amtrak compatible" are used in special charter service. Many times you will see these cars added on to the rear of an Amtrak train.

However, I doubt that there are any "former CZ" passenger cars in Amtrak's own fleet anymore.

Paul, thanks for taking the time to chime in here and address these issues.  Very much appreciated.  We very much want to see Atlas-O remain a player in this market -- throughout all facets of its product line!!!

David

Thanks for the update, Paul.

Back to Master Line engines, for a moment:  I really did appreciate Atlas' locomotives and have 3:  The RS-1, the SW-6 and the best running steam engine I own, the 0-6-0 switcher.  This little guy is so smooth, so s-l-o-w, and so well detailed that it's really wonderful.  When they designed the engine, based on USRA standards, but they customized each locomotive for the road it was lettered for.  They changed specific details that made the engine correct, and I have the C&NW version and it withstands close comparison to photos of the real engine.

Now, what was promised, perhaps four or five years ago was that there would be a second steam engine and I have been anxiously awaiting this arrival for all those years.  Rumor was that it was to be another USRA prototype, the heavy Mikado, which I would really like to see done, but I don't have confirmation on that.

As to diesels; what locomotive is there left to do that hasn't already been done in "0" gauge?  Not many, for sure, and they'd be pretty obscure engines with limited popular appeal.

While it is not my "railroad", the Cal Zephyr cars really were a great idea, but I agree with Scrapiron, this long wait has certainly taken the enthusiasm for the final train, out of the picture.

Paul Fischer

I've located a listing of Heritage Fleet diners still on Amtrak's roster:

Amtrak Diners

They may or may not still be active.

Rusty

I am looking forward to the Train Man line GE DASH 8 diesel with the improved sounds and features.

Andrew

Based on Pauls comments I would suspect the Tman GE-8 is still a long way out from production.

A large thanks to Atlas and Jerry Kimble for the integrety of offering the free window shade replacements for those of us that had ordered the original CZ cars.  I really have not seen the other guys (companies) make that kind of replacement or commitment to make good on mistakes or faulty designs they have made.  The schedule is of course an issue and has messed up my plan to sell my K-Line CZ to buy the Atlas CZ.  It's certainly true, we really need all the cars, obs, mail, baggage to keep the value of the sets.  A lot of us have made a significant investment in the already issued cars, it just make you nervous that it has taken so long to complete the set.  

Similar questions could be asked of Lionel, if they are going to bring out the additional cars for the reissue of the Blue Comet set and other sets.  Does anyone know?

Buzz

Well, that's three years of patiently waiting down the drain.  Only several months ago this engine was still slated to be produced, so they obviously had enough pre-orders.  I wonder what happened?  I'm very dissapointed.

 "Silver Restaurant" was refurbished in 2004 and was repainted into Phase IVb. It appears to still be in service.

 At this point, there would not be any other heritage fleet cars in service besides baggage cars and diners (and the Ocean View dome). They were all retired rather than continuing to fix them and/or convert to retention toilets. Now with the Viewliner IIs coming soon, the heritage baggage cars and diners will go too.