Suggestions Needed(Updated --2 Weeks)

I would get to a tourist line that offers engineer's seat time, and get some hand-on training in both locomotive operation and language.

The closest that I know of is the Nevade Northern's "Engine Rental".

http://www.nnry.com/locorental/2010/engine_rental.htm

I would if I could.

Thanks,
Mario

quote:

Originally posted by Don(Cerritos):
I would like to try and prepare myself to be more than just a total idiot. Any suggestions?

Here are mine:

Proper preparation prevents poor performance. Plan for unusual events and know in advance what you will do if they occur.

Smooth is more important than fast. Finesse is the ticket to being smooth.

Know more than you reveal, and be humble, because there are others who really know. They will not have time for you if you act like an old head. You have to earn your respect within that circle and know-it-alls are not respected. Don't talk, unless you have something to say.

Learn, remember, and follow every rule, and do not tolerate rule violations or unsafe behavior from anybody you work with.

Be pleasant to work with. Become more competent every day forever.

The best thing to do is pay attention to the professional training you and take it somewhat seriously (you still have to have fun of course). I took a cab ride on a steam locomotive in October and learned a ton from it. I never really understood what all the valves and things in a steam locomotive do. The fireman that got me up there told me what was going on as he did the different things and I know a lot more than I did before that ride. Really not that tough once I watched it for awhile.

Being on a steam locomotive is really a neat experience that I'll never forget.

Oh, and don't touch anything that's hot without gloves on (which is pretty much everything). I was warned ahead of time so I never had to find out what it's like the hard way

You guys are really great! All three of you offered some really good suggestions. I have printed them out and will referring to them frequently. May sound a little hookie, but I REALLY appreciate your time. It is obvious to me that you respected my question and responded accordingly. Thank you!

I will let you know how it goes.

You will learn the basic pretty easily. Go to the website "discoverlivesteam" and you will find a definitive article on the use of the Johnson bar in steam amusement park engines. The important thing to remember is that one can get killed and injure or maim others by improper operation of this equipment. Low speeds are important, and always inspect the track yourself before going to work.

That's awesome, Don! DL or KBF?

You sound like you really need to start from the bottom. I would suggest investing in a few books.

This is one of the best beginner books you will find: "Firing - A Passion for Steam". It's basic, but very detailed, and includes drawings and photos. It's only 52 pages long, with a stapled spine, but it will be invaluable to you.

When you get through that, you can try "The Engine Driver's Manual." Focuses on Brisish steam engines, but most everything is similar to US practice.

When you're really ready to step up to the big boys, ty to find books written back in the day, like the ICS coursebooks. They have chapters dealing with firing of oil-fueled engines, which you will need to know about.

One last thing: Keep that water high!

Good luck, and keep us posted!

There is one thing that you may not have thought of. Many years ago I was chatting with a young man who was employed operating a steam 4-4-0 on a loop of track around Stone Mountain Park, Georgia. The locomotive was fired up but it also had a diesel control stand in the cab of the 4-4-0 to operate a diesel locomotive disguised as a baggage car. He told me that engine crew guys usually started out with a lot of enthusiasm but they usually only lasted about three weeks or a month because they got bored with running the train 'round and 'round. Eventually I was told that they just opened the cylinder cocks and pushed the 4-4-0 around with the diesel. Now it has been years since they even bothered with the steam engine and now they run strictly diesel. So much for dreams when you are young. Odd-d

You are going to have a bunch of strangers whose lives are in your hands.

Give them a nice smooth trip. Some would have never ridden a train before.

Here's a book
Locomotive Management

quote:

Originally posted by Don(Cerritos):
I know they will provide training, but would like to try and prepare myself to be more than just a total idiot.

Sometimes, being a "total idiot" is the way to go. Some of your trainers may expect you to be a "blank slate," so that they can show you the way they do things (not everyone does things the same way).

On the railroad, ALWAYS ask questions if you don't know something, and never try to do anything you're unsure of. Never guess.

And don't worry about "going in circles." If you're fascinated by steam, the enjoyment will be in making the engine function correctly--you won't be looking at the scenery much.

Always have situational awareness--always. It may be an amusement park, but the trains are real--and they have no feelings or concern for your safety whatseover.

Thanks guys, Your words are NOT unheeded. I have thought a lot about the safety factors, not just me but others. That is the only area of concern I have. But when I start the training and find out how extensive it is, I will make the final determination. I'm not "afraid" of them, but dont see ANY reason for unnecessary risk.

I am following up with a couple of those books and references cited above. Really looking forward to the opportunity.

You sir, are a Fortunate individual to have this Opportunity.

The Book presented in this thread regarding locomotives has become my new learning regarding steam engines now.

Who knows? Maybe one day someone in Arkansas would need a Park Steam driver. I have enjoyed the one at the Baltimore Zoo decades ago. I have no idea if it is still operational. And several others in that part of the USA as well.

There is one very stupid question I have to ask. It is easy for me to hear the passenger cars bunch up one by one as Strasburg stops at the station returning from a run. Do the Park cars have any kind of braking? Or must they rely on the engine to take in the slack and stop?

quote:

Originally posted by Lee 145:
There is one very stupid question I have to ask. It is easy for me to hear the passenger cars bunch up one by one as Strasburg stops at the station returning from a run. Do the Park cars have any kind of braking? Or must they rely on the engine to take in the slack and stop?

Don didn't mention the theme park he'd be working at. If it's in SoCal, there are only two that have steam trains: Disneyland, and Knotts Berry Farm. Both have brakes on both the engine and train cars as well.

At Disneyland, they run "straight air" from a single brake lever. The air pressure in the train line is what actually applies the brake to both engine and cars simultaneously.

I'm not excatly sure about Knott's, but being that it's a "real" train that was equipped with standard air brakes, I suspect that the brakes operate a little differntly than at DL. My guess is the engine is equipped with two brake stands--one that controls the engine brakes only (independent) and one that controls the rest of the train. This would be a "reduction" system where, when the train brakes are applied, air pressure in the train line is reduced, which causes a "tripple valve" to open, causing air pressure stored in tanks on each car to apply the brakes.

quote:

It is easy for me to hear the passenger cars bunch up one by one as Strasburg stops at the station returning from a run. Do the Park cars have any kind of braking? Or must they rely on the engine to take in the slack and stop?

On the Busch Gardens, Williamsburg steam passenger RR, we use the the Automatic (train) brakes to keep the coaches stretched. Provides a smooth ride for the passenger with no run-in/run-out (minimal slack action). We normally only use the Independent brake system (loco & tender) as a "parking brake".

From an older BGRR SOP: "Brakes: Coach Brakes are air reduction, also referred to as automatic. Engine brakes are air induction, also referred to as independent."

My understanding is that the Busch Gardens Tampa engine crews only use the independent brakes - the run-in/-out slack action must make for interesting station stops and starts for the passengers...

We were at Disney in Orlando a couple of years ago and they used only the Independent brakes; I remember the Conductor announcing "Hold on" just before the train entered the station - it was quite a stop!. Bang, bang, bang as the coaches ran in.

quote:

Originally posted by wbg pete:
We were at Disney in Orlando a couple of years ago and they used only the Independent brakes; I remember the Conductor announcing "Hold on" just before the train entered the station - it was quite a stop!. Bang, bang, bang as the coaches ran in.

In fact, the WDW RR engines don't even have brakes!

To stop a moving engine which is not coupled to a train, the throttle is closed, the Johnson Bar put into reverse, and the throttle slowly opened again.

You are not supposed to admit steam into cylinders while in reverse with the engine moving forward.

Then again, I aint going to be the one to say "You aint" because my world is filled with yes I did.

It is interesting to see the different ways the Theme parks run the trains.

Sorry, I didn't answer the question earlier. I will be at Knott's Berry Farm. They have two consolidations, and 1 Galloping Goose. Also a scale Consolidation that runs on a 24" track in Camp Snoppy. Engineers/Fireman are trained on all 4 engines. The Goose is used on light attendance days.

Will continue posting as this evolves. I don't expect I will start actual training until late February or early March.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Lee 145:
You are not supposed to admit steam into cylinders while in reverse with the engine moving forward.

I'm not sure about "you're not supposed to." That was not an unheard-of way of stopping locomotives and trains in the 19th century.

quote:

Originally posted by Lee 145:

There is one very stupid question I have to ask. It is easy for me to hear the passenger cars bunch up one by one as Strasburg stops at the station returning from a run.

Great heavenly horrors!!!!! Don't tell me that the Strasburg, which I always thought of as being pretty close to real everyday railroad operation, has an Engineer who does not use the automatic brake on the passenger train. Oh, the shame . . .

quote:

Originally posted by smd4:

quote:

Originally posted by Lee 145:
You are not supposed to admit steam into cylinders while in reverse with the engine moving forward.

I'm not sure about "you're not supposed to." That was not an unheard-of way of stopping locomotives and trains in the 19th century.

IIRC, that is SOP at the B&O Museum when the William Mason is operated. The engine has no brakes except for a light hand brake on the tender. From what I've seen, they throw her in reverse and crack the throttle. 3 out of 4 B&O Museum owned operating steamers are not equipped with air brakes.

quote:

Originally posted by Don(Cerritos):
I have thought a lot about the safety factors, not just me but others. That is the only area of concern I have.

No need for concern. Just realize that steam is to be respected. You're dealing with pressures that can blow that locomotive (and the unfortunate engine crew) a quarter-mile down the track--just have a healthy respect that.

Trust me--if you're into steam, you will have a great time learning about them hands-on. Those C-19s are among my favorite steam locomotives. And how many people can say they've run an authentic RGS Galloping Goose?

Don, talk to Laz on the CTT forum. He runs the "Lokie" steam engine in a park back East. All my experience was on diesel but I do know the rules. I think at the Perris, California Railway Museum, they use a regular railroad rule book but I don't know about Knotts. I suppose the FRA regualations would apply though. I will also mention your situation to a friend of mine who used to fire one of the Knott engines years ago and see if he could tell you anything. Don't worry, they will train you and they don't expect everyone to be born with a throttle in their hand.

Ray

A long over due update.  Do not have the position yet, but things moving in the right direction.  Still very hopeful.  Had a 2 1/2 hr interview with the hiring engineer 10 days ago.  So waiting for a phone call.

Another update........

Got the position, will start on Tuesday April 3.  Really looking forward to it, met most of the other guys.

 

Thanks for the previous comments and suggestions.

Hey, that's great news, Don! Congratulations, and keep us posted on your progress.

Don Cerritos------Check out video marked below.  This shows a pretty young girl operating a full size steam engine.  just watch her; she's a natural. Think you can handle it?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWMUH4NhuRo&feature=player_detailpage 

 

 

RE Ottosen (Odd-d)

They didn't put her on the right-hand cushion the first day, or even the first year, Odd-d. Don will be fine.

Well, Steve, I realize that nothing good comes overnight but I would like to point out there is no limit if you are willing (and able)to invest the time and the effort.  It is interesting and encouraging to see a young person get to live out the dream that died when I was about twelve years old.  And while that young lady has a natural touch for running that engine it might be a different story if they handed her a coal shovel.  Also it was a bright sunny day shown on  those videos but railroads are a 24/7 operation winter and summer......Odd-d

Something a bit strange with how Rikki used the valve gear vs. the throttle, in that video. While just easing along, the johnson bar is almost on center with VERY light throttle, then she sets the air, opens up on the throttle and moves the johnson bar forward to almost in the corner. When she releases the air and closes down the throttle (almost no more exhaust sound), she the brings the johnson bar back up to almost center.  Wonder why he dad taught her to do THAT?

 

I know Rikki, and she is a REAL GOOD Fireman and I even let her fire UP 844 at 79MPH, eastbound along the Columbia River, back in September 2010. She did an EXCELLENT job, too!

 

Well, Rikki is a WHOLE LOT BETTER Fireman than she is an Engineer,,,,,so far!

Since I know absolutely nothing about operating a real locomotive and I was not present in the cab I don't know how the controls should have been set but the thing that impressed me was her quiet confidence.  Confidence is almost as important as knowledge.  Also I am gratified to see such a young person have an interest in steam locomotives.  I hope that interest extends to old time railroad lore as well.    Odd-d

Yes...something strange there. It's almost as if she set a little air on the train (she bailed off the independent), widened out on the throttle and dropped the gear just to put on a little show. However, when she eases off the throttle and hooks her up again, that reverse gear looks way too close to center for the speed they are going.

 

Odd-D, I would agree with you on her apparent confidence. There is no hesitation in what she is doing. She seems sure of her movements and handles the engine quite nicely.

Jack,

 

I've been up to Chehalis a few times with Luke for some 'firing' sessions and it looks to me like Rikki is running over the crossing of Highway 6. At this crossing, they like to put on a show as the railroad is flat and only pulling 2-4 cars. I've seen the engineer work around 35 lbs of steam with the reverse lever hooked up nearly to center, but while going over Highway 6, grabs some air, drops the reverse lever and opens her up.

 

Seems like just to give the paying customers a chace to hear the engine work since the engine pulls a light trainover a flat piece of railroad.

 

DV

I agree with you Dan, but that engine being an oil burner must be a ***** to fire without any exhaust back pressure, which would be the case with the johnson bar set almost on center.

Interestingly enough, everybody at Chehalis told me that they never use the blower and always go with whatever the engineer is using for throttle for draft, even with the engine hooked up 'under the chin'. Working pressure on that engine is 165psi, I believe, an even a neandurthal like me could maintain 155-160, as long as I kept up with everything.

 

DV

Must be nice, Dan.

Later

Looks like fun.  Glad to see you're liking it.

Congrats Don!