The All command

If it ran all the engines on the layout, that would be pretty interesting in a busy session at your club!

Ben,

   It runs all the engines entered into your remote on your layout, and if you have another layout close enough for the signal to jump too, it starts & runs those engines also, if the TIU on that layout is powered and also matches your remote control.

PCRR/Dave

What about engines on the layout but not in the remote, say in other remotes for other users?  I think that's Ben's real question.

gunrunner,

   The engine must be entered into the remote, for the remote to send the signal from the remote to activate the individual engine.  2 engines with the exact same identification will also start up.

PCRR/Dave

It should be all engines in the active list for that remote.

If you have multiple remotes and TIU's, is it possible in normal operating to get duplicate ID's for the engines?

It should be all engines in the active list for that remote.

Agreed.

gunrunner,

   Yes if both ID's actually came form the factory, it could happen that they might be exactly the same.

PCRR/Dave

John,

If you have multiple remotes and TIU's, is it possible in normal operating to get duplicate ID's for the engines?

Typically, only if you add them to multiple remotes out of sequence.

What has this to do with the ALL command? The ALL command doesn't modify DCS engine ID#s.

Barry,

   I was wondering the same thing, apples and oranges.  My comment was that even multipules of the same engine would operate once entered into the remote.

PCRR/Dave

This is exactly why we assign each member a string of addresses   Any engines they run at an open house or operating session have to have those addresses assigned.  We have about 16 remotes floating around and had problems with duplicate addresses.  I remember one time one of my trains started up and went in reverse out of the yard with a 40 car string of hoppers.  

So if I get this right let me give an example  I have a remote with three engines in the Active list  Three other remotes are also in use with a number of engines in their active lists.  If I use the All command I can control my three engines without worrying any other engines will be affected by my command as long as they dont have my addresses.  This sounds like a pretty good way to get around the lashup bug that is out there

 I think the all command will work for you.

 The trouble for me is that they all sound their horn for ex (all functions trigger together), etc. It's a quick way to run but not ideal for big consists for me. I've gotten used to bug work arounds and I figure you must have too!

Barry, I was responding to the previous comment by Dave, did you read the whole thread?

Ben,

So if I get this right let me give an example  I have a remote with three engines in the Active list  Three other remotes are also in use with a number of engines in their active lists.  If I use the All command I can control my three engines without worrying any other engines will be affected by my command as long as they dont have my addresses. 

Yes, that's essentially correct.

Dave,

My comment was that even multipules of the same engine would operate once entered into the remote.

Yes, that's correct. Further, only one of the duplicates needs to be in the remote to operate in an ALL Engines session.

Thank you guys    Lashups have been driving us crazy lately

Ben,

   Lash Ups are a cool thing but I only go so far with this madness, when it becomes a major pain, I bust them up again.

PCRR/Dave

FWIW, so far for Legacy, MU configurations work very well.

As Ralph Kramden would say   Don't make me laugh  They work fine until one engine loses signal and the other engines burn up from spinning their wheels   I address them all the same.

Ben,

   I knew you were going to bust his butt on that one, I started laughing even before you replied.

PCRR/Dave

What's a smokin' engine or two, don't you guys have any fun on your RR?

I knew going in the All button controlled only active engines in my remote. Say these engines are addressed as 1 2 and 3. Someone else has engines on the same layout or a layout close by will my All button give commands to engines addressed as 1 2 and 3 in other remotes?

One workaround is mentioned above by assigning channels. Another would be TIU addresses. i.e. A show where there is an adjacent layout. One layout would use TIU 1 and the other TIU 2. This would prevent other remotes from controlling trains on the wrong layout.

This brings up another hypothetical question. If we were all at a train show and there were 5 DCS layouts next to each other all using multiple TIUs and super mode. Can this be setup as 5 different supermodes? Layout 1s TIUs and remotes set on TIU 1. Layout 2 TIU 2 etc etc.

Too answer my own question, it would seem yes as each handheld only address the TIU number assigned to it. I doubt TIUs have to be set as 1 to be in supermode.

Jim,

Someone else has engines on the same layout or a layout close by will my All button give commands to engines addressed as 1 2 and 3 in other remotes?

Yes, it will, if the TIUs have the same number as your TIU.

If we were all at a train show and there were 5 DCS layouts next to each other all using multiple TIUs and super mode. Can this be setup as 5 different supermodes?

No. Supermode is Supermode.

Further, there's a little known bug in DCS that will address all TIUs as being in Super TIU mode even if only one has actually been set to Super mode.

Layout 1s TIUs and remotes set on TIU 1. Layout 2 TIU 2 etc etc.

If each layout has only one TIU, why use Super TIU mode at all? Just number TIUs differently from each other or tether each TIU to its remote.

You should also understand that it's not the TIUs that are set to Super TIU mode, rather, it's the remotes.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Barry in my scenario each layout used multiple TIUs thus each layout would be in supermode.

By your above post tethering handheld to a TIU would eliminate the air signal so other TIUs would no pick it up.

Is this true? I put my handheld in supermode and address engine #5 will this address every #5 engine active or not and assuming it is on a active DCS track on every layout in RF range assuming my Handheld is not tethered.

I know these scenarios sound a little crazy but certainly can come. Maybe not 5 layouts but certainly 2 next to each other can and will come up. The answers should be the same as worst case scenario.

A tethered  remote only communicates with the tiu it's tethered to. We use one tethered for  programming engines on a small siding while the rest of the layout continues on.

Scenario.. If you added all 5 tiu and set them to super mode  in your remote you could talk to any tiu  .( Providing you're in range).

It always hasn't been this way but is now.

Jim,

   This is actually a good question, although I have never tried it, if you use the all

command, I believe it should still activate every #5 engine in the remote, super mode or not.  I am waiting to read Barry's answer to this question however.

PCRR/Dave

I tried putting things in supermode. Had to go to TIU setup and it gave choices of TIU 1 with softkeys of NOR or SPM.

With no TIUs powered the handheld set TIU 1 (address?) to supermode.

With no TIUs powered tried changing TIU address out of RF range.

Changed TIU address to 3 then tried changing to supermode. Screen came up TIU 3 with choices of NOR or SPM.

This is actually getting strange. If my TIU is set to supermode it will control all engine addresses on any active DCS track within RF range at this point assuming no tether. If I pick another handheld set to TIU 1 NOR it will only control those engines on active tracks with a TIU 1 signal. Pick up a 3rd handheld addressed to TIU 3 NOR same thing over and over till 5.

Will do more experiments as I have more ?s.

Gregg. Then a tethered remote does not send out a RF signal. Can a TIU receive a RF signal if it is tethered to a remote?

A scenario: engine #5 running on your mainline. A engine on your programming  track addressed as #5. The programming track is active by a tethered TIU at the same TIU address as the mainline. Give a command via another handheld to the engine #5 on the mainline. Do both engines react to the command?

Jim,

Is this true? I put my handheld in supermode and address engine #5 will this address every #5 engine active or not and assuming it is on a active DCS track on every layout in RF range assuming my Handheld is not tethered.

Yes, all powered #5's will  be activated.

Simply put, a remote in normal TIU mode or Super TIU mode will always attempt to talk to any TIU that it knows about, i.e., that has been entered unto it.

Further, if a remote is in Super TIU mode, due to a DCS bug it will always attempt to talk to any TIU, regardless of whether or not that TIU has been entered into it.

The solutions are

• Tether single-remote layouts 
• Use different DCS ID#s for multiple TIU layouts
• Use different engine numbers on different layouts.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Does supermode amount to this? One handheld addressing all 5 TIU addresses at once.

Jim,

Then a tethered remote does not send out a RF signal. 

No, it does not.

Can a TIU receive a RF signal if it is tethered to a remote?

No, it cannot.

Does supermode amount to this? One handheld addressing all 5 TIU addresses at once.

That is a gross oversimplification of the process.

I suggest that you stop experimenting and get an understanding of how things work before you mess things up completely:

• You can add a TIU that's not powered up (because the only changes made are in the remote).
• You can change a TIU between Normal and Super mode that's not powered up (because the only changes made are in the remote).
• You cannot edit a TIU that's not powered up because the TIU is actually changed..

I have nothing messed up. Trying to learn this stuff before my club goes to DCS and we run into problems with an interaction with other layouts.

It happened once before when we were controlling and loading engines with the group next to us. None one in our group and only one person in the other group knew to change TIU addresses.

That maybe a oversimplification of the process but it essentially what is happening to the trains.

Experiment: I power up mt STD gauge layout leaving my O-gauge layout off. Change TIU address to 3. Power up my O-gauge layout with TIU set at address 1. The handheld will not power up engines as it can not talk to TIU 1. This is correct.

I change the handheld to supermode. It says TIU 3 NOR SPM. It then controls my O-gauge TIU also. This is correct.

At first, I thought it read it would only control TIUs set to address 3. What it really means is that pressing the NOR softkey the handheld will be set to address 3.

Hey Jim... I don't know of a way to change the start up direction . I usually go by the book for lash-ups . As far as one unit only receiving the command, can't that also happen to a by the book lash-up. Would you believe QSI(not MTH proto-1) could change the engine start up direction with feature five  20 years ago. Hey  maybe dcs could have this feature in the near future.

Yep! having fun with dcs  is not always about running trains. I've been in a few situations were I had my remote screen completely blank and also a engine with no sound .lights or anything. just a faint relay click. got'em all back, just don't know how.

I use the all command often.  It will run everything on the active engine screen.  I usually run two trains on each main line.  On my catenary lines I run three trains on the same track in the all mode.  This way the Z4K is only powering the three locomotives.  All the passenger cars are powered from a ROW transformer to the center rail.

Gregg

bring up engine. Menu,control,DIR control. This edits direction cycle. F/R F/F R/R there is no R/F. 

Not sure: but I think the lead engine board makes the trailing engine boards act like slave boards in a traditional lashup thus avoiding the above problem.

The All Command is great when you want to get every ones attention. Turn the sound off so they only hear the clack of the rails. Then with the Horns and Whistles set on high tap the button.

Yep. No R/F but maybe in the future . On the other hand.... QSI (not MTH)conventional was  very similar to DCS command except the  features were accessed with whistle, bell, pulses and raising and lowering the transformer handle in conventional mode. Quite a system for it's time. Maybe there's a reason why we don't have this feature yet. 

Most forget or do not know many of the PS-2/3 features can be addressed via the throttle if no DCS is available.

Why does it make you select a TIU when you hit "All"