The train movie "Unstoppable" - were the switching moves possible?

Sounds like a spring switch to me...very common. Used on many railroads both "full size", even down the 24" gauge trains I used to run...we had several spring switches on our railroad.

Remember, it is loosely based off of a real event where there was a runaway train, so it seems not all locomotives have deadman controls.

As for your questions, yes, a train that is heavy enough and fast enough could deform the points to allow it to go through like the 1st scene you mention.  I've read about it in books, and seen it happen on smaller (1/2, 1/3, and 1/4) scale trains.  I don't see the 2nd scene happening in real life, unless there was a quick hand in throwing the switch.

I take the move for what it is, a fun action flick with lots of train in it.  That's why I got it and watched it.  But you can ask my wife, there were many times I spoke up during the film because of the unbelieveability of some of the things.  Like the train coming of the rails in that elevated curve and not falling off the track.  But that wasn't the train guy in me calling fowl, it was the mechanical engineer in me.

Terrible railroading but swell melodrama.

They could have stopped the train by having a second crewman on the two locomotives that were ahead of the runaway.  Once they were coupled, have the other crewman cross over and enter the runaways cab and begin locomotive braking in concert with the other two.

But then, the movie would have been only 10 minutes long and Denzel and Chris's stuntmen wouldn't have been doing all those acrobatics.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Terrible railroading but swell melodrama.

They could have stopped the train by having a second crewman on the two locomotives that were ahead of the runaway.  Once they were coupled, have the other crewman cross over and enter the runaways cab and begin locomotive braking in concert with the other two.

But then, the movie would have been only 10 minutes long and Denzel and Chris's stuntmen wouldn't have been doing all those acrobatics.

Rusty

But no, it makes much more sense to land an army guy who probably has no experience operating a locomotive land on top of a train going 70mph from a helicopter! 

What a shame! Every other action movie is totally accurate in regards to realism

RickO posted:

What a shame! Every other action movie is totally accurate in regards to realism

 

What?  You mean western movies aren't real?

Only the one with Johnny Depp as Tonto.

There were many issues with that movie that make you wonder if it was real. That's Hollywood for you! They should have been able to switch that train onto a siding and stop it somehow. Also why would an engineer jump off of a moving diesel engine? Isn't there somebody to throw the switch either manually or from a remote control like in a tower?

The scene where the train lifts up some from the rails is Hollywood again! What i know about physics that train should have gone over on it's side.

Lee Fritz

Ha! I was glued to my seat... Love this movie for the train drama.  Does Hollywood know that the trucks on freight cars are not attached to the car bodies?

Well it was entertaining and I actually got the family to watch it...

I think I lost it when they showed Denzel's daughter (Meagan Tandy) worked at Hooters.

ES44AC posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Terrible railroading but swell melodrama.

They could have stopped the train by having a second crewman on the two locomotives that were ahead of the runaway.  Once they were coupled, have the other crewman cross over and enter the runaways cab and begin locomotive braking in concert with the other two.

But then, the movie would have been only 10 minutes long and Denzel and Chris's stuntmen wouldn't have been doing all those acrobatics.

Rusty

But no, it makes much more sense to land an army guy who probably has no experience operating a locomotive land on top of a train going 70mph from a helicopter! 

The guy was a marine doing the dope on the rope thing.  Army guys are not that stupid. We would of done the drive along side of the train move, like at the end. That's for true adrenaline junkies and actually more dangerous.

Too bad Mythbusters is done filming its last season, after the tank car implosion this would of been a great hollywood episode.

Mark

Kelly Anderson posted:

The title of that dog should have been "Unwatchable"!  My wife made me sit through it, otherwise it would have been ejected in the first five minutes.  They must have gotten all or their research info from that "Extreme Trains" series a few years back.  Horrible!!

Wow. It's called "suspension of disbelief." You have to posses the ability to do it in order to find any sort of fiction enjoyable.

A locomotive or rail car going through a trailing point switch (moving from double track to single track) with the switch aligned against the move will roll through just fine. There is a breakable link in the switch machine that will break and allow the points to move.

As for the movie itself, it was typical Hollywood crap.  

As a military pilot who got his wings over 40 years ago, I have been watching similar aviation related "crap" in the movies for a long time.  I think most professionals can say the same thing about how their profession is portrayed in the movies.

Are you telling me Superman can't really fly?

I tell you one thing, the idea of a giant gorilla climbing the Empire State building seems entirely plausible.... until he falls in love with a human female...... what a joke!!

OGR Webmaster posted:

 

As for the movie itself, it was typical Hollywood crap.  

Crap?  Really?  This is the only movie I've ever seen where they have made any attempt to portray how trains are operated.

Would someone here please tell me which Hollywood movie has a more accurate, detailed portrayal of what it is like to operate ac4400cw's and sd40-2's, or something similar?

Last I checked, Unstoppable was 86% certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes (you know, by actual film critics that went to film school).

Please enlighten me on which movie I should watch that got these details more correct?

Martin H posted:

OGR Webmaster posted:

 

As for the movie itself, it was typical Hollywood crap.  

 

Please enlighten me on which movie I should watch that got these details more correct?

How about The Train, with Bert Lancaster?

"Please enlighten me on which movie I should watch that got these details more correct?"

Yep you just need to drink more cool aid and watch this movie....

Hot Water posted:

How about The Train, with Bert Lancaster?

The Train was a very real portrayal of a real railroad. I have enjoyed that film many times.

Another film that portrayed steam-era American railroading fairly accurately was Emperor of the North with Ernest Borgnine and Lee Marvin.

I can't watch many war movies for the same reasons.

But though several pals of mine also call this movie, "Unwatchable" and can't stomach it, I do have a copy, saw it in the theater and have the DVD. Yeah, there are some scenes you have to ignore the physics, but I thought it was fun anyway.

That said, I don't get why so many movies show derailments where the cars go flying dozens (or even hundreds) of feet. "Super 8" and "Red Tails" both did this and that drove me nuts as in real life, they'd have to be moving Northeast Corridor speeds for that to even possibly happen.

Kelly Anderson posted:

Wyhog posted:

Superman can fly. But he can only do it once.
Does he really fly or does he just "super jump" because of his super strength?
Even as a kid I always cringed at the scene where Superman stops a speeding train by shoving against the locomotive's nose. Doesn't anybody but me equate that to the train having a head-on collision or the train running into the proverbial unmovable "brick wall"? Even if Superman survives it the train certainly wouldn't.

 

Like in "Hancock"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV6-yZG4v4Y

I was watching this recently.  If Hancock really brought a locomotive to an abrupt stop like that, wouldn't it cause incredible compression of the cars near the front?  Would their structure compress, or would one end of the car be forced straight up into the air?  (Pretty much the opposite of "stringlining", right?)

CAPPilot posted:

As a military pilot who got his wings over 40 years ago, I have been watching similar aviation related "crap" in the movies for a long time.  I think most professionals can say the same thing about how their profession is portrayed in the movies.

My wife has a PhD in Biochemistry and I'm an Electrical Engineer. We just turn off that part of our brains and enjoy the ride.

Once of that movie was enough. I did not buy any of their "stunts," for one second. Especially the part where that train goes around the curve at 65 mph and goes up.

Side note, it seems that it was a regional railway/short line like the W&LE, the BP, and the WNYP. That being said, what regionals have a GE Locomotives like that? Seriously?

I wish MTH would of offered the engines. I know I would of picked them up.

Martin H posted:

...If Hancock really brought a locomotive to an abrupt stop like that, wouldn't it cause incredible compression of the cars near the front?  Would their structure compress, or would one end of the car be forced straight up into the air?  (Pretty much the opposite of "stringlining", right?)

The word you are looking for is "accordion" or "zig-zag." The cars would derail and end up sideways accordion-style, similar to how they showed it in the clip.

A movie producer will never let the immutable laws of physics ruin a good film. 

Yup, just about any action movie or any movie for that matter requires suspension of disbelief - I always enjoy watching those movies where the guy/gal gets into a knock down drag out kung-foooo fight, absorbs an insane amount of physical punishment directed at his/her head/body, and, at most, in the next scene has nothing but a small Band-Aid taped just above one eyebrow along with a smattering of discoloration to indicate he/she was in a fight. 

  The other bit of action that really makes me cringe (if I don't keep the disbelief properly suspended) is the ability of individuals in an on foot chase sequence to completely suspend the laws of physics with respect to jumping off of some high point, land on a dumpster, roll out, and keep chasing the bad guy. 

What I noticed in that movie were the scenes where Denzel Washington's engines were trying to couple up (sorry, I mean lash up) with the runaway train and when they hit the last car the grain (or whatever it was) was flying back in his face.  When the camera pulled back for a wide angle shot you could see the air hoses were coupled between the engines and the last car.  You have to look fast.  Who could have done that?  And on one scene the stunt man was no where to be seen between the engine and last car.

Rick

They must have gotten their "artistic license" in a box of Cracker Jacks. It should really have been called "Unwatchable". This one goes into my "schlock" file with that other gem Runaway Train. Don't walk, run away! There are so many decent train movies, and these aren't two of them.

OGR Webmaster posted:

Hot Water posted:

How about The Train, with Bert Lancaster?

The Train was a very real portrayal of a real railroad. I have enjoyed that film many times.

Another film that portrayed steam-era American railroading fairly accurately was Emperor of the North with Ernest Borgnine and Lee Marvin.

I guess we do have something in common Rich. Those are my two favorites too. I have Emperor of the North on DVD, and The Train has been preserved on my DVR for over two years. Just watched it again a couple weeks ago.

This movie had an incredible amount of sins, but was a really cool movie. I couldn't help notice that when the train  was on the curve, the coal in the hoppers should have fallen out...

Maxrailroad posted:

This movie had an incredible amount of sins, but was a really cool movie. I couldn't help notice that when the train  was on the curve, the coal in the hoppers should have fallen out...

And the pipes that fell off the bulkhead flat, were back on as Denzel was running across the cartops.

It's magic...

Rusty

Other than having possibly the worst theme song I've ever heard in any movie, Emperor of the North is, to me, the "Citizen Kane" of railroad movies.

Emperor of the  North was pretty far fetched as well.   I just can't think of any  old conductors  that could have been  that angry  or worked for anyone that  miserable  when I started in 1965.  Crews  would have heard about it.   Yes I know the era was probably in the twenties but some of the older guys I started with had over 40 years service and still a few years to go.  Most were real  gentlemen .   Having said that   I liked the scenery and equipment and some of the story.  Setting out  bad order car . yard office scenes.  I also  think the engineman would have thrown the conductor out of the engine  cab .  

The movie I did like  starred Bert Lancaster    , who played a  engine  Road  Forman  during WW 2 in France. Can't remember the name of the Movie.

Gregg posted:

Emperor of the  North was pretty far fetched as well.   I just can't think of any  old conductors  that could have been  that angry  or worked for anyone that  miserable  when I started in 1965.  Crews  would have heard about it.   Yes I know the era was probably in the twenties but some of the older guys I started with had over 40 years service and still a few years to go.  Most were real  gentlemen . 

I guess things were MUCH different in Canada. You have no idea of the significant quantity of REALLY nasty and surely old Conductors and Engineers throughout the 1920s and 1930s on railroads in the U.S.  

  Having said that   I liked the scenery and equipment and some of the story.  Setting out  bad order car . yard office scenes.  I also  think the engineman would have thrown the conductor out of the engine  cab .  

The movie I did like  starred Bert Lancaster    , who played a  engine  Road  Forman  during WW 2 in France. Can't remember the name of the Movie.

As I posted above, that would be the movie "The Train".

 

I don't watch many movies (I've been accused of being a film snob) but I did watch "Unstoppable" and thoroughly enjoyed it.  It was based on the real life runaway known as the CSX 8888 incident.  There is a very good write-up about it on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_8888_incident) which explains how and why the dead man's switch was disabled and the not-so-funny comedy of errors that made a bad situation get totally out of hand.   (The engineer was trying to get maximum dynamic braking to slow the train when he set the throttle to 100% but he hadn't actually engaged dynamic braking as he intended so he got maximum acceleration instead.)  Granted, Hollywood took some license but it was not that far off from the actual incident, IMHO.  I enjoyed it as good entertainment and thought it was more of a reflection that "truth is stranger than fiction" rather than a totally wack Hollywood improbability.  By the way, the actual incident happened in Ohio even though "Unstoppable" was filmed in Pennsylvania.  

Kelly Anderson posted:

Like in "Hancock"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV6-yZG4v4Y

Well, Hancock had one thing right, " all you folks blocking the intersection are idiots!"

The movie I did like  starred Bert Lancaster    , who played a  engine  Road  Forman  during WW 2 in France. Can't remember the name of the Movie.

The movie was called "The Train"

There are movies and there are documentaries. Some people never seem to get the difference.