The Vintage 1945 Lionel Train Set I ruined as a kid

I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Nice story.Do you have that set now?

What a great story... but there is some artistic license taken in there. You had a Turbine(671/2020) or a 2025/675, not a 224, according to Encyclopedia Brown.

How ironic.  From what I understand my father had that exact same set as a boy in the late 1940s-early 50s, and it ended up getting "ruined" by being taken outside and played with in the dirt by my older brother sometime in the early 1970s when he was about the same age or maybe a little younger.  In my father's case, I believe that the entire set was unceremoniously thrown out shortly thereafterwards; I can only conclude that it was ruined beyond hope.

…. and lacking a smoke unit, a 224 didn’t need smoke pills!

Bill

That was but one of the clues...

463W either from 45 or 46, I think it was from 1945 because the tank car was silver not gray?

Not a turbine and no idea why smoke pills were in the box.

No artistic license at all.

There were indeed 224 sets (don't know the set #) produced in 1945. They were apparently the first to come off the line when Lionel converted back from compass-making.

Still have mine! Santa brought it in 1945, I had just turned four.

That set, along with a Z transformer, was the foundation of a Christmas tradition. For the next ten years a car and an accessory were under the tree. A 4x8 sheet of plywood in the basement allowed for a year round layout.

It was all boxed up from about 1955 until the Christmas following my father's passing in 1997. Searching for memories, I dug it out and put it around the tree. I was - and still am - back into trains.

That 224 runs great. The cars show a great deal of play wear, the accessories are on my 0 gauge layout and still work.

I was very fortunate......

The smoke pellets in the box is not the only anachronism(although you are describing 20-year-old trains in the 1960's). The transformer you describe was not made until 1948(the 463 set didn't come with one). And the 224 doesn't have a removable boiler front/plate - it sure sounds like a 2025/675 - same motor & wheels/wheel arrangement as the 224.

Sounds like a set made out of various pieces. That would fit out of place items.

I remember taking a single HO flat car out side, still has the mud on it. never received that harsh of a response about it, i think there were other issues that only added to its untimely departure. The trains from that era from what I have heard are pretty tough.

Why can't some people just appreciate the story instead of nitpicking it?

The only set produced by Lionel in 1945 was the 463W which had the 224 engine.  The presence of the smoke pills and later transformer doesn't mean the OP didn't have what he said he had.  The transformer could easily have been added later, and the smoke pills could have come from another set that the uncle might have had, or could have been mistakenly purchased thinking that they could be used with that engine.  That set was around 20 years old or more by the time the OP received.  A lot could happen in that length of time.

It certainly was a rough experience for a young boy and he still regrets it.  I think maybe he should find one of those sets and get reacquainted with it.

John: 

I enjoyed chipset’s story, too, but as a long-time post-war operator and collector I noted SEVERAL factual errors which Rob and probably other post-war collectors on this Forum also noticed.  With all due respect, let’s face it, time blurs our memories of details.  We’re all guilty of that.  So Rob is trying to help chipset more accurately identify which Lionel set he remembers ruining by dropping the locomotive.

You are correct and it is a fact that set #463W headed by a 224 was produced in 1945 with the consist shown in that photo.  But you are overlooking Rob’s key clue in this difference of opinion which is the FACT that the boiler front on the 224 was cast into the engine body shell and not removable.  If chipset watched his father pick up the boiler front that fell off, then the engine could NOT have been a 224.  And I agree with Rob that the easily removable boiler front requires that the engine be a 675, 2025, 671 or a 2020. 

The 671 and 2020 are turbines which chipset has ruled out.  That leaves a 675 or 2025 which were produced in 1947 through 1949.  As Rob pointed out they had the same 2-6-2 wheel arrangement as the #224.  In addition, they both had smoke units which used smoke “pills”, are heavier than a 224 and have boiler fronts that snap off very easily as I can attest to having accidently knocked off the boiler front on my own original 2025 on several occasions while a kid.  And as Rob also points out the transformer that was described with big orange and black plastic handles (either a 1032 or a 1033) was not produced until 1948. 

If the trains in question came with that 1032 or 1033 transformer as a complete set then it has to be a 1948 or 1949 set.  The sets headed by 675’s or 2025’s in the 1948 and 1949 catalogs, however, were either 3-car sets or 4-car sets with an operating car. 

All this suggests that perhaps the uncle or a previous owner had bought the trains as separate items rather than as one original complete set.  For example, either he or a previous owner could have had the 1945 set and then upgraded to a smoking engine by replacing the 224 engine with a 675 or 2025 and also bought that 1032/1033 transformer in 1948 or later.   

Now do you still think it could have been set #463W?

HTH,

Bill

Great Story!!!!  Happy Thanksgiving...Rich

Not meaning to pick on Chipset's story:

The last train set I purchased privately was a hand-me-down outfit. It was not an original set, and had pieces ranging over at least a five year span.

On the other hand, I purchased a 463W set from the original owner earlier this year.

No boxes, but it was complete, and came with extra track, two transformers, and several Marx accessories.

Chipset

Great story, a least with many years perspective.

It is possible and I do to appreciate this as remembered but still be glad for the additional information presented.

Memories are that--hopefully to be enjoyed and bring back hopefully better times.

Scotie

Great story.

I am glad you all are helping me shed light on this!

It looked like the 463W, which I am basing the claim of the 463w on CCT Jan issue article and pictures as well as that link.

Here are some items of interest:

1)The wheels of the loco had silver trim

2) Definately the front boiler plate fell out

3) Smoke pills in the box

4) Tubular track with black ties

5) Transformer with a large black plastic handle and an orange

6) Had an instruction manual in that classic looking blue and black or green and black cover with all the cool pics

7) The engine was loud and growly

8) There were 2 tenders, one had the bottom scoop, the other more modern like a traditional pw tender.

wow, well said

that story needs to go to print in a magazine.  about everyone here can relate to the same things, brings back memories, lots of them

serious about submitting it to a magazine, needs to be done, with pictures if you have them

quote:

1)The wheels of the loco had silver trim

2) Definately the front boiler plate fell out

Off hand, I cannot think of any steam engines that did not have nickel rims between 1945 and 1949 (wheels with silver trim)

As has already been posted, 224 does not have a removable boiler front.

Enjoyed the story, thanks for sharing

Brent

Chipset,

My Dad has this exact set right now on his layout, he runs it from time to time. I will take a few pictures of it and post it here.

Alex

Thanks Alex! I promise I won't come over and drop it!

Something I don’t recall being mentioned as yet about the 1945 set has to do with the cars. Didn’t the 1945 cars come with knuckle coupler trucks, but with those “flying” pickup shoes that broke off easily. Were those upgraded with the 1946 sets, or later?

i dont believe this ever happened.a great story,and that is just what it is.amazing the people on here taking it serious.-jim

I was thrilled to get my Lionel Scout set the first year and a few years later I had to watch my cousin put track to the edge of a table and run his AA War Bonnets off the edge on to the floor. He would laugh like crazy, pick them up and do it again. I don't remember how long they lasted.

This actually did happen, why would I lie?

The drunk uncle was my Uncle Roy, he treated me like gold, and my father was his only friend in the family, despite my father being the only guy who was man enough of all my relatives to actually punch my Uncle Roy on two occasions where he was drunk and abusive.

I guess he respected my father for that, as when my Uncle Roy was not drunk, he was actually a very quiet and intelligent guy.

Engineer (blue prints), electrician, plumber..you name it.

I think the man could build an entire house by himself.

Unfortunately, he would get the BEST jobs and then lose them cuz he was a drunk.

It was rare to not see him "stewed" to some degree, and when he was sober he was a different person.

He was a WWII vet, according to my cousin, I believe he was  a Canadian Paratrooper or Ranger...not sure exactly which during D-Day, but some kind of soldier.

He had many military tattoo's from WWII and refused to watch war movies or allow anyone in his presence to watch them.

He also smoked Camel cigarettes like a fiend, and once told me he has to have a glass of water on his night stand at night.

My mother claimed it was because drinking was his hobby, even water.

He has some good taste in trains, that's for sure.

He passed away in 1984, and was found dead of a heart attack in his car on the side of the road.

His son is an extremely rich and successful retired business man.

My Father was a merchant marine during WWII, and forged his fathers signature to volunteer, I am not sure why..I know he had an open wound from a nasty polinoidal cyst surgery that took forever to heal and caused him to delay his volunteering.

The poor guy when returned from the war with his buddies, apparently had a wild night out one night, and they all got busted for public intoxication and relieving themselves in public.

It ruined their lives...none of them could get jobs after that...today, people do worse...100x worse and get off scott free.....not back then.

A relative got him a job in a factory where worked forever and put in tons of overtime.

Considering he only made $65 a week in the 1960's he was still able to buy a brand new house on Long Island NY back then.

My father, was a saint to me....never abusive, except for when I dropped that locomotive.

And that's not abuse...just a reprimand.

He loved Christmas time and Lionel and HO trains, even slot car tracks.

The man loved hockey and would take me to Long Island Ducks hockey games at the Commack arena.

He also would take me by the Long Island Railroads Morris Park Shops in Queens NY and the abandoned Rockaway Line in Ozone Park.

Sadly, he passed away in 1997 of a 3rd and final fatal stroke, 11 years after the first stroke that left him half paralyzed for 10 years, but still could not keep him down.

He walked with a quad cane, used a scooter for handicapped, but yet would steal my mothers car for joy rides.

It was because of him, my dear dad, who purchased me a Lionel Scout freight set in 1965 and a Lionel Alco AA Santa Fe passenger a year later(?); that I love Lionel trains.

I still have both in boxes and still run them, with zero maintenance since 1965.

quote:

Something I don’t recall being mentioned as yet about the 1945 set has to do with the cars. Didn’t the 1945 cars come with knuckle coupler trucks, but with those “flying” pickup shoes that broke off easily. Were those upgraded with the 1946 sets, or later?

By 1946 they had replaced the flying pickups with the metal baseplate arrangement that many of us are familiar with.

Didn't we all beat the crap out of our trains when we were young kids? My dad gave me a 2046 set that I still have. Every year another train Christmas present arrived and the set grew a bit.  I ran the set for hours and the object was to see how fast I could get them to run full throttle down the 9' side of my 5'x9' loop with a switched line down the middle. Well it wasn't that fast with 027 track, a 90W transformer but I ran the trains off the tracks many times. When we added the ZW in the late 50's it was off to the races!!!  Fortunately I couldn't afford table work so the plywood board sat right on the floor.  That limited damage. That 2046 engine is well worn but still runs like new today 67 years later, a testament to fine American design, manufacturing and craftsmanship.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I bought those 4 cars at a garage sale a couple years a go for $40.

All in great shape.

My understanding is that the engine cab for the 1945 version was flat,

as opposed to a curved cab floor. That engine is also a great runner....

 Knuckle couplers, close coupled or scale like. I have the set. The cars were from

1941 molds, The 1945 engine has a flat floor vs a curved floor in 46.

My own tale of destruction: In 1953, when we lived in the Territory of Alaska, I received my 1st Lionel, a Scout set.  That was not an easy thing to find up there back then, but Santa (my Dad) managed to get one.  I loved the train and was not happy when it was put away after Christmas.  Somehow I found it and dug it out, and being totally impressed by the awesome power of the locomotive, I put the track down in a straight line, ending at the wall.  I fully expected that loco to punch right through that wall....well, it didn't.  Broke it.  Dad was not happy and there wasn't any place up there to get it repaired.  It was two years of pleading before I received another train set.  I still have that one.

Took a few pictures... The other thing I remember is that the 1945 tender

that was used had black hand rails.

I concur with John23........for Pete's sake......the guy is telling his story, and if the minutia,  rivet counting, correct colour, and EXACT engine facts aren't straight...then y'all miss the point that it is a S T O R Y.

      I cringe when I think of my brother and I also lining up all the straight track we could find (from our boxes of hand-me-down trains) and ending the run at the basement concrete wall. There would've been tons of repeat runs had we not put combustible stuff like burning newspaper in the gondola cars (behind the locos) to make the fiery crash realistic.

  We found out that moms' n' dads n guests have good noses to track the smell of something burning down to the basement.  But no appreciation of our type of fun.

This is similar (engine, tank car, caboose) to the set I got in 1946, however, the 224 never smoked.

Fire, dirt, and Kamikaze drag races, were never involved. Well not Kamikaze drags. Mostly just Casey Jones style speed in the curves causing derailments, and an occasional broken drinking glass off turn #3. I think I cracked a blue diesel either C&O or ARMY playing Gomez Addams against my steamer. Grandpa was a collector, I liked trains, so every gift ever from him was a Lionel. Except the year he saw my broken items, that was a learning year. Lots of repercussions, but no percussions(swats). One, he traded me, all my "junk" for a couple(2) of newer good ones that were gifts for someone . Almost all have survived since that day. You would all hate me if you had a clue as to what I've actually owned, and destroyed. Almost every military, and space item is just the tip! So Chipset, I feel ya! But without the idiocy, what would we have learned? Go buy that replacement, and learn to care for it happily. Its all the old guy really wanted out of you, remind him(& you) your ready! and he did ok.    

My first train was a Bachmann HO set. I don't know how many scale miles an hour one of those will go, but we maxed out the speed and launched it across the carpet a number of times. It was last seen doing Christmas duty at my nephew's house forty-odd years later. 

We we have to look back down the years and realize that to six or eight or ten-year-old us, that wasn't a Priceless Collectible. It was the coolest toy we had and most of us played with it in all kinds of what seem, to adults, to be strange and disturbing ways. When we set the four-foot circle of track beside the armchair and put a horse and rider up on the arm, we were really Tonto and the Lone Ranger guarding the train from the bad guys about to rob it (they were in their cave, aka the underside of the chair, and yes, when we played Cowboys and Indians, we were the Indians.) Plastic toy elephants in the gondolas were shorthand for a circus train, which was why some luckless plastic dude had to balance on whatever piece of string we put up for a tightrope. Soldiers hanging out of boxcars were Dad's stories about coming home. (We didn't have passenger cars, but we had imaginations.) We were barely restrained from taking the locomotive outside, but we did take the cars to the sandbox and use the...I don't know what it's called; it strained sand and poured it down a chute, and if it wasn't actually a coal load-out we imagined it into one. You know...we were playing. With toys. Which more than occasionally got broken. It's upsetting to think of a kid breaking toys on purpose, but when it's our own old friends that got chipped, scratched or flat-out destroyed, we wonder why we were too rough with them.

We were kids, that's why!

quote:

You would all hate me if you had a clue as to what I've actually owned, and destroyed. Almost every military, and space item is just the tip!

Lionel military and space items were frowned upon for a very long time. When you played roughly with yours, they probably weren't desirable to most

Some of those items were rather fragile, it didn't take much to damage them anyway.