Tinkering with the Lionel BNSF Dash 9

Nice work, thanks for sharing!

Nice job if you a need for these motors, I have two or three new ones available,  You might have to change side frames to match your project.  Email in profile...

Marty

Ted Sowirka posted:

Nice work, thanks for sharing!

Thank you.  I will post a before and after video once I complete the second motor.

Martin Derouin posted:

Nice job if you a need for these motors, I have two or three new ones available,  You might have to change side frames to match your project.  Email in profile...

Marty

No need for an additional motor at the moment. I noticed that the C truck design have been quite pricey as of late. 

What would describe as pricy???   New motors, good magnatraction//

Marty

Too bad you weren't at Lionel for the original design.  For 3.00 you could have saved everyone some pain.  Or for another 1.29 you could have lobbied for a metal gear instead of the delrin.

Martin Derouin posted:

What would describe as pricy???   New motors, good magnatraction//

Marty

 

I might have misunderstood. Do you sell 671-style (3/16 inch) magnetraction axles?

aussteve posted:

Too bad you weren't at Lionel for the original design.  For 3.00 you could have saved everyone some pain.  Or for another 1.29 you could have lobbied for a metal gear instead of the delrin.

lol. I thank you for the complement. Yes, I understand the frustrations with material choices that Lionel makes when just a step up costs not much more. 

One of those thin ring bushings

probably costs Lionel less than 5 cents. The ball bearings cost about 5 dollars, but I am sure if bought in the bulk of 1000's the price would drop to less than a $1. However, Lionel throughout their history has been about cost cutting and finding every way to save a penny. Can't really argue with the strategy as they are still here whereas so many others have gone the wayside.   

The other motor was more worn than expected. The actual cast metal truck frame was cut into by the axle and made a oval shape when what should be round. This made the motor very noisy as well as difficult to put in the new ball bearing or any type of bushing/bearing for that matter. The magnetraction axle was nearly worn though the brass casing to the magnetic material.

The motor is back together, has ball bearings in the brush plate as well and shunted brushes.

There is still work to be done. There is significant wear on the two inner magnetraction axles. I need to find a plain wheel and geared wheel with grooves for traction tires since I cannot find ball bearings that fit both the diameter of the axle itself as well as the space for it to fit. I could drill, but that would be major drilling, not widening by 1/64 inch. Thus, things are not quite optimum until I get the two inner drive axles taken care of. 

What happens is that when the locomotive is operated the rollers wear. The rollers are steel and magnetic.  The metal shavings that come off the rollers magnetically stick to the magnetic drive axle that is exposed.  The metal shavings off the rollers get into the oilite bushings and grind them down. 

Anyways, here are some after videos after the ball bearings are installed. The before video became corrupted so don't have that. Disappointing since the grinding was so loud that it would put a 2333 to shame.

Here is the unit staring out. There is a little motor noise which will probably be corrected once I replace the two inner axles. 

Once the unit is underway it is much more quiet and the motors do not make much noise. 

The Dash 9 has great coasting ability. It coasts about 4 feet if power is suddenly cut to the unit while underway!

The unit is behaving much better now but still needs a little more work done to it. Ready for another 20 years of operation. 

Thank you for describing and showing your process in so much detail.  One question: why did you "shunt" the brushes?

JTrains posted:

Thank you for describing and showing your process in so much detail.  One question: why did you "shunt" the brushes?

"Shunted" motor brushes is another way of saying that they have a braided wire lead.

http://store.eurtonelectric.co...eswithwireshunt.aspx

WBC posted:

JTrains posted:

Thank you for describing and showing your process in so much detail.  One question: why did you "shunt" the brushes?

"Shunted" motor brushes is another way of saying that they have a braided wire lead.

http://store.eurtonelectric.co...eswithwireshunt.aspx

I'm assuming that the purpose it to provide a better / more consistent / higher capacity pathway beyond what the brush well / spring contact provide?  Assuming so, is this a typical problem?  How would one know this would be a good idea on a particular motor?

JTrains posted:

I'm assuming that the purpose it to provide a better / more consistent / higher capacity pathway beyond what the brush well / spring contact provide?  Assuming so, is this a typical problem?  How would one know this would be a good idea on a particular motor?

Modern Lionel universal motors have more slop in them than their postwar counterparts. The brushes used in postwar motors were essentially sintered copper whereas newer construction are mostly carbon. 

Below is a picture of a modern carbon brush (right) and the copper postwar brush (left). 

Postwar springs were stronger and the brushes fit into their slots better so the wire leads, while still a good idea, were not as important. Today, the wire leads provide much better conductivity than the brush holders and springs.