To Tubular or Not to Tubular, that is the question!

Hi rdeal,

i just went through the process of determining the same thing on my layout. Although our layouts are in to different directions, I want to share a thought. The Lionel Fastrack is by far the noisiest track.  I eventually decided on Atlas O track for the prototypical look. I think in your situation, I'd definately do tubular to accomplish the look and for the noise factor. I tink the tubular track with the glossy red table would look awesome!

Coming from a background of HO for over 40 years, I never thought I would ever use tubular track when I switched to O gauge.  Now I have tried Fastrack, MTH Realtrack, GarGraves, and yes tubular 027.  If money was no object I would go with GarGraves and Ross switches.  However, I hate to spend more than I need on track.  One observation; the once so offensive third rail, is now not even noticed by me.  This weekend at the North Penn O Gaugers, I saw trains and scenery, not track.  Would tubular track whether I put extra ties under it or not become the same way?  No matter what track I use, I will keep the plan simple; no crossings and few switches.

in your case, rdeal, I would go with tubular, just as Wanderer suggested.

"Mark" - please explain: "Would tubular track whether I put extra ties under it or not become the same way?"

what do you mean by extra ties?

thanks, rdeal

When I built my new layout I went with brand new O gauge for a number of reasons. I like to run my old Pre-war trains from other mfrs, price, simplicity(I didn't like some of the coupling systems), the variety of curves, the 40" straight pieces(which are great), the "old fashioned" look. I messed with adding extra ties but not worth the effort. You could paint most of the center rail black or dark brown but I never notice the rails. I have some O gauge Gargraves but not using it. Nice track but bending the curves never worked for me.

Tubular for a Christmas layout IMHO, if nostalgia is important, and it sounds like it is.

FasTrak is great, but I can't figure out the geometry of it:  Even a simple figure 8 isn't simple.

I like Mark Boyce's comments about not even noticing the middle rail - just the scenic elements. 

"trainsRMe" - nostalgia is rule #1

i am trying to create a "childhood memory" - cracker jacks - monopoly board - gingerbread - m&m's - dominoes - tinker toys - baby ruth - and other tidbits from . . .

and with a bit of hesitation - some how i am adding "bubble lights"

But first - the track issue must be solved

thanks so much for your help - rdeal

Yes, I have seen some modelers add extra ties in the unrealistic spacing between ties on the traditional tubular track.  Some have cut pieces of wood, others have bought manufactured ties that are the same width as the Lionel ties on tubular track.  They slide them under the rails to match the distance between the two end ties where two pieces of track meet.  This gives the impression of track laid more realistically, although the ties are very wide.

Some me of the photos on this forum show this, but I can't think who has done this.  If I find a photo, I will come back and add it.

If you are going for the old style look why even worry about extra ties. Tinplate track gives any layout a nice retro appearance.

Lionel Historically Correct Sound

=

Tubular Track

Gary

• Cheers from The

I think tubular would be a great choice for the layout you have planned.

Here is an example of O27 tubular with extra ties added. They were cut from 1/8" masonite. I was trying for a more "hi-rail", realistic (?!) look.

But, I think just plain tubular is fine as is.

Jim

Let's face it Jim, any track looks better with a Santa Fe War Bonnet on it.   

Yup ... Fastrack is good stuff.

But, for what you're doing .... looking for nostalgia and childhood memories .... and especially with a bright, high-gloss red base .... I think it screams out for Lionel tubular!

I really like your plans. Hope to see photos of it someday.

Have fun.

It is a matter of personal choice. For me, I have tubular track for a Xmas tree oval mounted on wood roadbed, painted gray, with a felt bottom. For modeling I use a combo of Ross and Gargraves track with Ross switches. To each his own.......

Rdeal,

There you have it!  Jim Dandy to the rescue!!  Thanks Jim.  

This is what I am thinking I may do, but with Apalachian scenery and Appalachian locomotives.  The extra ties tie into the scenery.  Now, for your Christmas layout on the red platform, I would use the tubular ties as is, as so many have said, for that nostolgic Christmas look!

One more thing, Santa Fe Jim is right about the Warbonnet.  Just you normally don't see them in the Apalachians!  ;-)

Thanks, Jim And Jim!

Mark,

How about a warbonnet that operated in the Adirondacks? Close enough?

Bob

Flat-top rail like AtlasO will run more ranges of wheelsets more reliably.  You can even run a lot of 2-rail stuff reliably.

Tubular track ultimately will give you less options to run a variety of stuff.

Tubular was the cheapest, it is strong, easy to work with and I am familiar with it. Have run everything I have on it, including a1915 Ives cast iron steamer. Plus, if Atlas doesn't import the track you are screwed. I don't say the other tracks are no good, just listing why I went tubular.

A permanent Christmas layout should really be tubular with or without extra ties.  You should be able to get clean used track at train show or in the buy/sell froum at a good price.

Al

 Nice to hear about your progression.

Does it make sense now?

 "Would tubular track, whether I put extra ties under it or not, become the same way?"

 Martin has a point. The more squared the rail top is, the wider your future choices are. More prototypical flanges don't like tubular much.

 If your going to stick with what you have now, and only progress by buying traditional pizza cutter flanges, you can stick with the tubular tracks.

 How much of your personal nostalgia, as well as the importance of its look in your design, is ultimately tied to your "right answer" too.

 I have (or will) a little of every type of track I had as a kid on my layout eventually, because its what I want to see, not because it performs different enough to get extremely excited about.

 "New" track of any type normally runs a little better.

Put something on the plywood then paint that if you need to. Foam, rubber, cork, carpet, cloth, etc., put something down to cut noise.  

Here is a photo of O a Gauge tuular track with extra ties by Wardie Jay.

While my Christmas layout won't be permanent, it will be tubular, with cardboard putz houses on one side, and Plasticville on the other. "Angel Hair" will be used for snow, and the tree above it will be Shiny-Brite ornaments and large glass bulbed lights, with tinsel. I'm thinking of throwing some vintage toys around it as well. I didn't grow up in that time, but I have a nostalgia for it as well.

Point is, some things just need tubular and other less "sophisticated" items, and a Christmas layout is, I think, one of them.

thanks so much for you discussion and varied points and suggestions. you have given permission and encouragement to use tubular – that was the original plan – i briefly redrew the layout – using all lionel minimum curves of 42 degrees – but had to use atlas to get 36 degrees for trolley - much, much $ savings

adriatic raises a good point – noise with track on plywood – that also was the original plan – bright christmas deep red paint – almost a varnished look - - - this is a bit of nostalgia – when we created our first, well, and last permanent layout – my day – used a christmas green – forest green – and it looked varnished

I have found a very nice green – outdoor/indoor – carpet – nice christmas green (my opinion) Home Depot -

but as adriatic reminds – that would create ample noise – i guess –

it is nostalgia / red paint vs noise / green carpet

what is your thinking

thanks so much - rdeal

I think the noise is a good thing, too. It isn't a permanent display, and it is meant to engender certain nostalgic feelings, and I think the "clickety-clack" of tubular on plywood is part of that.

Go tubular....................

All the suppliers seem to have shortages of various pieces of track on a regular basis, that includes new tubular. There is so much more tubular on the secondary market available to make it up, can't say the same for other types. Also, when you need a special section of track, most anyone can modify tubular track. It also has a bit of give to it. If you need a 46" loop or a 49" loop, a 48" loop of tubular can be squeezed or widened to fit. It's pretty forgiving stuff.

Steve

Lionel Grandpa,

Thanks for the name of who you got the ties from.  That is an excellent example of what I was writing about.

Bob,

You are exactly right!  And I like it!  Until a trip to the Adirondacks 3 years ago, I had not paid much attention to D&H.  We followed the tourist railroad that runs D&H up the upper Hudson River.  Yes, these are very attractive!

RD, Indoor outdoor carpet is extremely quiet by itself. My pal uses it.

 I just didn't think about using that today. (I also need to keep remembering you don't see deep snow like we do up North ). 

 I've used "nothing", and then 1/2" green foam on this layout.

 Foam is better than plain plywood for sure, but I think the "turf", or carpet is quieter.

  I'd use the "turf" but I have a peculiar distaste for it I cant logically explain.

 My dislike was the dents from leaning on foam while doing work without a "knee & elbow" board for protection.

  Grass paper was my cure. It rebounds, hiding the divits.  

  Once I finish up some changes, I'm going to try and insulate below the table too. When I finish I'll let you know how much insulating from below changes things.

 Foam and other textiles can be painted with most latex paints, which is available in deep rich glosses too, especially if you foot the little extra for high end/ high pigment count paint.

  Using primer, proper sanding, and just maybe a surfacing additive, the results can be far from what your used to seeing on most walls.

  Once a little trim is on the sides of the foam, and its painted, you cant really tell its foam, except no wood grain texture shows .

 If you use foam, remove any of the thin protective(vapor?) sheets from the work side of the foam. It will likely peel up in spots as you work.

 If you end up with "formed I.D. letters" facing up (oops), you can sand them out pretty easy too. Prime till smooth again.  

I like the indoor green carpet. Wish I had the $$ when I built my layout to put it down. I use tubular but if I was a lot younger and richer I would have an On3 layout. I would use Gargraves track. Had some brass On3 engines and cars at one time. You get the size of O but the narrow track of, almost, HO.  Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette shows awesome layouts in the scale.

When I rebuilt my prewar layout I went to green carpet  specifically Shaw   Bella Vita  54170.  The color is 70350.  I believe it looks far better than the usual indoor/outdoor carpet sold at places like Home Depot

I've used lots of tubular track because it is cheap, sturdy, good conductivity, authentic retro look, etc. For non-permanent layouts it stays put pretty well on a carpet base. But the newer roadbed styles look more prototypical if you want that kind of look.

for me you just cant beat old school tubular. it can even be made to look great with a little effort!!!      (oh and mark boyce fancy seeing you here)

IMO, you can't beat O27 tubular for quick and inexpensive set-ups, especially if you are testing and experimenting.  Easy to do a quick insulated rail, hack special fitter sections, even re-bend the curves (by hand pressure, no special device needed for just a few pieces, the ties help you maintain gauge), and the look is classic and "antique," if that matters to you.  Great for Christmas layouts!  I love it!

Take care, Joe.

Go with the original. There's so many reasons why it has been around for more than one hundred years. Every layout that I have built for almost seven decades had tubular track. So many of us prefer to bring back our childhood memories using the same.

Originally Posted by Steve "Papa" Eastman:

There you have it......"Go Tubular"

So many dealers and other manufactures are wanting people to believe that there is a shortage...DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF IT!  There's so much tubular track out there. The secondary market is loaded. All you have to do is ask around at Train Shows sponsored by the larger well known clubs. Then there's always the larger auctions. Think of it as an adventure.

Bad Horse,

I have been here!  Something looks very familiar about that layout.  lol

I certainly know where you stand on the subject!  Glad you stopped by to weigh in!

I use Lionel tubular because the used stuff costs less, you can make the roadbed/ballast however you want, customize it however you want, and it's very easy to cut and take apart if needed.

lol,,,,,,,,, yeah you know i'm a hard core tubular guy. even though my layout is coming along slowly, it will a real looker when finshed

Without doubt tubular. Even tho I love 027 tubular I switched to Atlas O because I've had too much track rust out on me here in South Florida.

Super O is also an option. It's vintage, tubular, beautiful & readily available.

Tubular can look nice......,here are some shots from our layout extensio.

Peter

Your ties and ballast is looking good!  Take your time and have fun.  You can run trains while you improve.