Skip to main content

Since I've been working on my 116 station I've been learing about all the variations from original Lionel to T-Reproductions, to MTH, to Lionel Classics, to Lionel Corp. It's almost a philisopical question as to what is really real. The original Lionel made the first tooling for my station, then, years later, it was reverse engineered & reproduced by other companies like TR & Williams while the original Lionel went through a series of ownership & organizational changes, & then they reformed, sued T-Reproductions, won their tooling from them & then later sub contracted with MTH to reproduce their new items that were based on their old items. Where did the orignal design leave off & the new copy actually start? Is my newer reproduction a decendent of the old original, or is it a completely different facsimile? Bends the concepts of reality in my mind. Just an interesting thing to think about. Reminds me of the debate about ships like the brig USS Niagara. If it's been rebuilt so many times that there's barely an original part on her, is she still the same ship? Did Captain Perry actually walk that deck or not? What is real & what is recall? Just my random thoughts on a cold, dark October night...

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Yeah, depends on your view of perception. Is it the same axe or a remanufactured copy if Washington never touched the current parts? My station came about as a direct result of the old original, but it's design is a copy of one & it was made by a company that was not the original Lionel, yet without the first version of both the company & the item, my copy cannot exist. Then, in the end, current versions of the production of mine are being made that are sold under the original name, since the rights to use the words "Lionel Corporation" have been reacquired by the newest version of the old company after 3 ownership & format changes. Mind boggling...   

Since you are inviting philosophical ruminations, my one-and-a-half-cent contribution would be that I regard all of it as 'real'.  We live in a world where entropy rules, and things wear down and disintegrate unless maintained and repaired.  I collect vintage Ives, and whereas most collectors insist on "all original", I don't mind a bit, seeing where something has been carefully repaired or missing parts replaced by someone who cared enough about the old train to treat it well.

 

I also collect "Modern Era" Standard Gauge, and I do not view these as somehow 'fakes' or not real.  When Standard Gauge tinplate all but disappeared in the 1960's thru 1970's, these craftsmen and small manufacturers contributed a lot to the hobby and kept it alive. I think that the pieces they made in the 1970's are as important to where we are now, as what Ives, Lionel and Flyer did in the 1920's.  

 

Railroaded, you mention the tooling used to make these tinplate pieces.  As most of you know, Arno is in the process of "writing the book on Modern Era Standard Gauge"; I believe that the book may have something to say on the history of the tooling, how it changed hands and was modified at various stages.  It's a living history that has morphed and evolved organically, so its no wonder you can't pin down "when did the new copy actually start?"  It's an ongoing continuum, that we with our layouts and collections are part of.

 

 

The whole thing is in your head. I have original tinplate structures that were near junk that I've stripped & repainted & I also have new repro stuff that I've done the same thing to. It all looks the same when I'm done with it - refreshed & reborn into something new, based on the look & feel of the old style, but updated & adapated to my more modern twist. Anyone that comes over to see them- most aren't experts, collectors,  or even hobbyists & no one cares, they like them regardles of how they got here. They can't tell any difference & it's all just the same.

That brings back memories. I grew up on a wooden sailboat. At age 15 I hated spending every weekend with my parents on the boat, but I got to be a solid jib man and a competent enough skipper if I had to fill in. The skills came in handy in my international career - it's amazing how many invitations you can get in a small expat community if you have a reputation for knowing your way around a sailboat. Watching the stars on a 2-to-4 stint as helmsman, then waking up at anchor in a bay in a little-travelled island in Fiji - not a bad payback for some rough times as a kid.
 
My favorite kind of boat is one that belongs to somebody else. I've varnished enough mahogany and caulked enough teak decks that I'm happy to leave the owner's part to others. I'll take the foredeck and the forecastle, thank you very much. 
 
Originally Posted by ogaugenut:

My other hobby is boats.  There are many old wooden historical boats that have been rebuilt so many times that they only have a small fraction (if any) of the original wood, yet they are still considered the same boat.

 

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×