Traction Tires

Chris;

I run steam engines almost exclusively so I understand the frustration.

 

However, I rarely have issues with my engines and traction tires.

 

Possibly it's because I avoid tight corners if at all possible and possibly it's because I run as much like a real train as I can. Low accel and decel rates prevail. Moderate train consist per engine as well. Then again, For a Big Boy, even moderate is a lot of cars.

The only engine I have that has required tires replacement is a Big Boy with a bad motor, one motor ran slower than the other causing the driver sets to fight each other. THAT ate up traction tires, I assure you.

Since replacing the motor in one driver set, no more issues.

 

Good Luck and May God Bless you and yours.

Well....

 

Whatever solution is used must be:

 

- cheap

- plentiful

- easy (relatively) to implement

- easy (relatively) to repair

- long (relatively) lasting

 

The question as to how to improve the adhesion of metal wheels to metal track is not just a model train exercise.  Indeed, actual train manufacturers and railroads have been dealing with this concept for, oh, a couple of hundred years give or take.  In the toy train realm, out options are somewhat more limited.  We can't use massive weight, and we can't use sand, so what else sticks to metal rails better than soft rubber?  It's malleable, it's relatively inexpensive, and it works.  Bullfrog Snot is simply a variation on the design and compound.  Magnets?  Perhaps, but it would all depend on the implementation - I don't see anyone rushing to that bandwagon, and it's been with us for a while.  

 

For many of us pulling short trains across level layouts, traction tires probably aren't even necessary.  For the rest, traction tires are cheap and easy enough... OK, so in some cases they are NOT easy enough....  I don't really like them either, but short of soft rubber rails, I'm not sure how you impact adhesion enough to make much of a difference.  Perhaps some sort of chemical coating that you spray on either the track or the wheels?  

+1 - the stretching really kills them fast.  I had a RK Allegheny that wasn't balanced quite right and it chewed them up.  Once the balance issues were fixed it ran like a champ...

kind of off, but on, the traction tire subject.  I had a couple windups that when you turned them on, they would go so fast that the wheels would just spin.  I have a 13 year old and a couple years ago there was a big fad where the girls were making bracelets out of little rubber bands.  I got a few from her and believe it or not are staying put on the engines and the wheels aren't slipping.  so, if you're looking for a cheap and easy fix, go thru the kids' hobby box.  jeff

In the same vane as the OP, after all of these years with cars on the road, why are we still using rubber tires?  They wear out and cost a ton to replace, and when they go out, we can't even drive the car, and it may even damage the car?  Why isn't there a better solution??

 

As an engineer, the reason we still have rubber tires on our cars and trains is because it is the best and simplest and most cost effective solution to the problem at hand.  The ratio of locomotives I have vs number of tires I've had to replace on said locomotives is so low that it's a non-factor.  Actually, the only tires I've had to replace are on my new old stock locomotives.  These are locomotives that came out in the late 90's and were pretty much never run.  The tires swelled over the year and thus come off.  Locomotives that I have of the same vintage that were run regularly still have the original tires on them, and they are nice and tight and keep the locomotive going.  And then only one where the tires came off and it caused an issue.  I like traction tires, they are simple, work on any track, and aren't a pain to replace, IMHO.

Magna-Traction had issues all it's own, it'll pick up any little magnetic object and deposit it into your gears, not always a good thing.  Also, it doesn't work nearly as well as traction tires and doesn't work on nickel alloy track like Atlas.

 

Perhaps you should offer a suggestion about what would be better than traction tires, maybe you can get rich.  It has to be effective and cheap, the challenge may be a bit more than you imagined.

I do not believe that Bull Frog Snot is a good option here. I bought a jar of it a few weeks ago and have been applying it to engines that do not have traction tires or magnetraction. I first put it on a new MTH 260E that had bad wheel slip. I also added over a 1/2 lb of lead to the inside of the engine. Also treated  were a PW 726 and a 226E. Initially, in all cases, the Snot worked great. It dramatically increased traction and eliminated wheel slip for a particular length consist. Until it didn't.  And that took about 10 minutes of run time. The Snot started peeling off. I re-treated each engine 3 more times (with thicker layers) but it always ended up peeling off. I can't speak for using Snot on engines that have traction tires, but for me and my engines that lack them, it just doesn't last. I initially tried a strip of electrical tape and that worked great! But of course, sooner of later, that will wear off, potentially leaving some adhesive gunk on the tracks. But, I may not let that idea go.....it only takes about 30 seconds to apply a thin strip of tape and about 5 seconds to remove one.

 

Roger

I wish I had the answer. I guess watching all of the vast improvements made over the last 15-20 years with electronics and remote controls etc. I figured someone (much smarter than I) would have come up with something better than the run of the mill traction tire by now. I know I won't be a millionaire any time soon !

Maybe American Flyer had the answer. If you recall, the original Pull-Mor on American Flyer engines was actually just traction tires. Unlike today's rubber bands, the "secret compound" was bonded to the wheel.

 

I have a 57 year old AF 283 Pacific that I got for Christmas when I was a kid. It pulled 12 cars and the caboose. A heavier load than most 283's probably pulled, plus I ran the wheels off of it. It still has the original Pull-Mor tires and they are still pliable.

 

The biggest drawback was, that if something did happen to one of them, since the compound was bonded to the wheel, the wheel had to be replaced.

ROGER1  I have been using Bull Frog Snot on my MTH locomotives for about five years now. Some of them have countless hours pulling forty plus cars on 2% grades. Never had a problem.

NCT,

Are you using your BFS as a replacement for traction tires or as a coating on the wheel like I am? The engines I applied it to never had traction tires and therefore don't have a groove. Therefore the thickness that can be applied is a whole lot less. For my application, it's not working. In fact, I emailed the manufacturer this afternoon and asked if I was doing something wrong. His answer was.....

For O applications it is possible to expect too much from the SNOT.

 

If you're using it on engines that lack a groove, I'd be interested to hear your application method.   Thanks

 

-Roger

Some of the newer engines that I have, came with traction tires and after using some Crazy Glue (isocyanate glue) to keep them on, they have been running reliably. I much prefer Magnetraction because it is maintenance free and it works well with heavier diesel and steam engines. Tractor tires pull better but should be vulcanized or bonded to the wheels (like on American Flyer trains) for improved operation.

Just an idea but what if a thin coating of BFS was applied to the surface of the rail on one side perhaps on a grade?

I'm sure all of us who have problems with traction tires are happy for those who never have problems!! However, traction tires are in fact a pain in the buttocks!!!!! Whether you run your engines slow speed , medium speed, etc., and whether you run your engines on tubular, gargraves, atlas, fast trak, real trax or use  0-31, 0-45, 0-54, or 0-72??? traction tires are a pain in the buttocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

 

I think vacuum cleaners suck.

hello guys and gals...........

 

Well the KEY here to solve this is always a old age solution that is SHORTER trains and wider curves (0-72 at least) then you can get by without Magni-traction or tires.  Most forks don't have a lot of space to run scale size trains and 21 inch passenger cars. Some of them run their trains on the carpet central, I am one of them.

 

Tiffany

Dry climate, heavy trains, and steep grades will chew them up. In the over all scheme of things, they are pretty inexpensive compared to many other things in this hobby.

 

Keep a supply on hand, and once you've changed them a few times, it's pretty easy. Do you want to pull 8 cars or 20? Until we start filling our engines with smoke fluid and sand, I don't see the tires going away any time soon... if ever. I don't want sand all over my layout  unless it's glued down.

 

The 2R guys don't have rubber tires usually, and ask them about running big trains. Just like real trains, the bigger your train, the more engines you need to pull it. 1 3R engine that will pull 20-30 cars, needs 2-3 engines in 2R with no tires.

Unless it's a steam engine where the wheels with the traction tire just happens to be the ones behind the crossheads.  The Lionel scale cab forwards are designed this way.  Now that's a major pain! (think: Bullfrog snot instead) 

ROGER1 I have used it on grooved and non grooved wheels. On non grooved wheels I put on a couple of thin layers. Let each layer dry before doing the next. Make  sure the wheel is free from grease and dirt. Some times I rough up the wheel tread with a Bright Boy to give the Snot some thing to hold on to. 

I'll give that a try, NCT. Thanks.

 

How long are you letting it dry between coats? I've been drying it for 8 hours or more.

 

Roger

The only negative for snot that I have come across is when the engines sit for awhile, you get a flat spot in the snot.

I do so abhor flat spots in my snot!

 

Would a High fiber diet alleviate the problem?

That only solves issues at the other end, you should know that!  

Just let the snot dry and then pick your nose.

.....

Dennis

I believe the real answer to this problem is chemistry! We need a chemist to come up with the right combination of compounds to make the tires last longer, not be so prone to stretching, and that will hold up to oil, smoke fluid etc.... My self, I have been using williams diesel traction tires for all of my engines, steam included! it takes a little to stretch them to fit but they seem to hold up better!

 

Have fun! Uncle Al 

Maybe the mfrs. should make the whole wheel out of hard rubber?

.....

Dennis

How about RTV gasket material?

One of the few I did have to replace tires on was my MTH RailKing Cab Forward.  It really wasn't that bad with the locomotive belly up.  But then I've had more experience than most in wrenching in awkward places.

That's a bad idea because over time the rubber will get brittle and then crumble.  It'll also get had and then at that point it's no different then the steel wheels.  I'm having the problem with my old AF locomotive.  It's down to being able to only pull 4 cars because the wheels are hard and now as slick as steel.

Already done HERE.