Transformer Phasing question

They are different manufacturers so they are wired differently. There is no standardization. You can turn the plug around on it. Having said that A Z4000 will not phase exactly with a modern ZW or even a PW ZW. They can be phased in the sense that both are positive and both are negative during the cycle, but due to the type of sine waves generated they will not superimpose on each other,even if the voltage was exactly the same.

Dale H

It's odd that the Z4000 isn't in phase.  It should be in phase out of the box with that many Lionels.   Double check the phasing again with a voltmeter with your Lionel and Z4000 set at 18 volts.

When I was looking for another Z-4000, a Local Hobby shop has a used one for sale. The prior owner had replaced the factory plug with a old style two prong narrow blade plug.

Prehaps there a some phasing issues with the Z-4000 transformers all matching up.

jc,

   Your Z4K maybe out of phase with your post war ZW's or KW's, NIB,  I use old sytle plug adapters on my ZW's and KW's or I replace the plugs on them with industrial plugs.  These men are giving you good advise, the Z4K is not exactly phased with the older ZW's or KW's,  but you can get them as close as possible using either the old style plug adapter or rewiring with an good industrail plug.

I use ZW's, KW's and a Z4k to power my layout without any noticable phase trouble what so ever.  In your case I would just use the old style plug adapter on the Z4K so it matches the phasing of your other transformers.

PCRR/Dave

Maybe, the plug on the strip is wired backwards. Try plugging the 4000 in to a different plug on the strip.

This is an interesting point which I hadn't really thought about before because I've used only older transformers with conventional sine-wave outputs. Something like a CW80 with a shark-fin waveform probably shouldn't be "phased" with anything else? Modern electronic transformers don't necessarily have pure sine wave output corresponding to the input power.

If the output voltage of two transformers are 180 degrees out of phase, the problem could be due to and simply resolved either by cutting or swapping the wires to the 120 volt input male plug on the transformer to reverse the polarity or by filing down the slightly wider prong on the male plug to fit the slightly smaller female slot on the 120 volt outlet or by using an intermediate 2 prong 3 wire adapter.

WARNING

Although any above solution will work electrically, it would be considered unsafe by an Electrical inspector in case of fire. As a 1960 graduate BSEE (Electrical Engineer) with over 50 years of experience in the Electrical Utility Industry, I would recommend the following:  

BETTER IDEA

Use a voltmeter to measure that the "hot" smaller slot of every 2 pole 120 volt outlet is 120 volts to ground and "neutral" slightly wider slot is at zero potential to ground.

Reference ground could be either the round slot on a three prong 120 volt outlet, or the screw to metal cover plate on a metal outlet box or other nearby grounded metal water pipe.  If the polarity to the 120 volt outlet is discovered to be incorrect, one should then disconnect power to the 120 volt outlet and visually check wiring to the outlet.

According to the NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE, the "hot" black (or sometimes red) wire should always be connected to the brass screw (which is internally connected to the smaller slot of the 120 volt outlet) and the "neutral" (usually white) wire should be connected to the silver screw (which is internally connected to the slightly wider of the two straight slots of any 120 volt outlet).

www.njhirailers.com

We have a Z4000 plugged into the same strip as 4 180 watt bricks. We learned real quick that the Z4000 was NOT in phase with the bricks. Used an older 2 prong adapter and flipped the plugged on the Z4000, and all is fine and working as intended. Do know why they are not in phase, as they are all realitively new, but don't care at this point either... the fix was quick and simple.

Ace, the shark fin waveform does not change the polarity (improperly referred to as "phase" here.)  All transformers should have the same phase.

My measurements indicate that Lionel has adopted a "standard" of positive voltage in yields negative voltage out.  My guess is that nobody thought about this when they first started using polarized plugs, thus resulting in the "backward" polarity standard.  (My supporting evidence is that the early 180W bricks were backwards with respect to the older 135W bricks, which would seem to indicate nobody was watching/testing polarity.)

Question Is the the Z4000 the only one with a U L listing?

Understood; I just wondered if there might be any complications with the waveforms not being the same shape even though they are matched in polarity? Also wondered if the electronically transformed waveforms might lead or lag slightly?

Actually, I haven't yet had a reason to phase transformers in my conventional O-gauge world - not until I do more interconnecting of main tracks.