Mine did exactly as Bruce described when I caused a short on the 12v side while wiring a toggle. I had no clue what happened when the power supply shut off. I think I'll use fuses, too. I think redundancy won't hurt a thing if it keeps my layout from burning up. Thanks for the advice.
rrman posted:BruceT47 posted:rrman posted:John H posted:I have a building on the way. I was planning on using a PC power supply's 5VDC with a series diode. I think I''ll stick with that plan.
I assume by this statement, you mean you WILL use a PC supply. If so, I would add a 1 or two amp fuse in series with hot wire. Those PC supply +5VDC can really source the current!
Not sure I understand this? Is the fuse a backup in the event the internal protection fails? I can ground a couple of pieces of magnet wire together on any of the outputs and my unit shuts down instantly for 3-5 minutes. Thanks for any additional input!
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Suggesting using an external fuse on each of John's 5V lines. If your PC supply shuts down with a short on any output then you have a better designed supply than I have seen. AFAIK, the PC supplies are made cheap as possible with just enough protection to keep UL happy.
Thanks. I'm sure the spec's vary. Mine is very sensitive to short circuits on the 5V and 12V outputs.
Bruce
Hi Everyone - Would love to see a short video showing how to test an menards 4.5V adapter with a V meter. I, for one, am a visual learner and would find this helpful.
Paul
What meter (model #) do you have? And you have a Menards 3-output adapter and one or more Menards building in hand?
I posted this info. yesterday, and its gone today. Here it is again: Menards got back to me - they said their buildings are designed for 4.5 volts (with some built in tolerance-not sure what that equates to in voltage); and that using an 8 volt wall mount would fry them.
They may have misunderstood my question - I was telling them that the Menards adaptors are putting out over 8 volts, yet the units say 4.5 volts.
I am doing everything I can to get my voltages below 5 volts.
Paul Kallus posted:I posted this info. yesterday, and its gone today. Here it is again: Menards got back to me - they said their buildings are designed for 4.5 volts (with some built in tolerance-not sure what that equates to in voltage); and that using an 8 volt wall mount would fry them.
They may have misunderstood my question - I was telling them that the Menards adaptors are putting out over 8 volts, yet the units say 4.5 volts.
I am doing everything I can to get my voltages below 5 volts.
Well at least you have an idea and a good idea at that! From one of the other threads it appears Menards said they are discussing this issue with their factory engineers or something like that.
From what you say I am firmly convinced that anyone using these unregulated adapters should, at their earliest convenience, take them back for a refund (justified by their own statement about frying buildings) and replace them with a regulated adapter whether provided by Menards/Masterforce or from someone else (examples given in this and the co-running threads - Frys, Lemax, eBay, etc.). It appears that it can take months for the damage from over-voltage to cause a failure. Just my opinion...
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Yes, If I lived near a Menards I would have taken back my adaptors...but its not even worth the shipping cost to send them at this point. Even if an adaptor said regulated does that mean it really is? And, if it was then you may need one per building.
One thing after all this toil, even when I manage to get the voltage down to around 5 volts the white LEDs Menards uses are not as nice as the old incandescent bulbs, at 7-8 volts they're super bright and not realistic at all, but at 5 volts there tolerable but still "funny" white light.
There are some quite yellow LEDs and even more, you can coat them with orange paint if you want a project.
Someone posted once that to take the blue out of the LED, warm them up, coating the LED with Tamiya Orange Clear X26 does the trick. I have yet to try it, but someone did post that it worked well.
What Chuck said. Works for me.
I just wrote that color down...will see if hobby shops near me have it in stock. Thanks.
In case you can't find it and have amazon prime for the shipping...
Warning, a little paint goes a long way. Brush on lightly and see how it looks (there is no drying time as such, so results are immediate.) Repeat until right tint and brightness suits you. Although bottle is small, you will have many life time supply of this paint!
The little goes a long way is what I remember. I did hundreds of cool-white LEDs this way and as I look at my bottle, it is still full!
I dug up these photos (they are over 10 years old!) from when so-called "warm-white" LEDs were hard to come by. The photos on the right are the surface-mount LED style which I understand is what they use in the buildings(?). I used rubbing alcohol to thin the almost "syrup" like consistency of the Tamiya paint. You have to experiment; the upper right photo shows different amounts of coating. As I recall alcohol on a swab will wipe off a coating to try again if need be.
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Thanks for the tips!
I just thought of this...with regards to powering the Menards buildings (which require 4.5 volts) would harm result to them if the voltage was lower? Since some of the LED lights are very challenging to get to (to paint) was wondering what would happen if I reduced the voltage even more? I don't imagine any damage would result for buildings with just LEDs, but what about those with blinking signs (that may have some sort of circuit)?
Paul Kallus posted:..Since some of the LED lights are very challenging to get to (to paint) was wondering what would happen if I reduced the voltage even more?
Lowering the voltage to and LED does not change the color in any way a human could see. If you can't get to the LED itself to paint, you might be able to cover the LED with, say, transparent orange cellophane wrap. Or if the walls around the LED are white you can paint them orange so that any reflected light takes on the color shift.
If you have a building with a blinking sign can you take and post some photos of the circuit board? My understanding is these buildings use technology similar to Miller signs in which case these circuits step up the 4.5V DC to something in the region of 100V AC (at very very low current). If presented with an under-voltage, these circuits simply fail to illuminate the sign but will not be damaged.
So what is your plan of action? Sounds like you're going to continue to use the unregulated adapters and experiment with combinations of buildings that drops the voltage to something near 4.5V DC?
I think Paul is thinking mostly of reducing the voltage to reduce the intensity of the LED. I think, if the building also had a sign of some sort, you could just separate the sign from the LED circuit. And possible power the LEDs with a lower voltage supply or introduce some way to drop the voltage. Seems like getting to the wiring and figuring that out would be easier than addressing every LED with paint.
Yes, Stan and Chuck, I was only thinking of reducing voltage to lower intensity of LEDs, and was curious if that would be damaging to the LEDs or any potential circuits in the structures themselves (given Menards instructions state to operate on 4.5 VDC). If I understood Stan right, no damage would occur the only downside may be a blinking sign will not function.
Yes, I am continuing to gang multiple structures on single Menards transformers, so far so good. Was wondering if should I measure the current as well just to ensure it isn't exceeding the transformers stated output?
I know, for example, that most Lionel and MTH buildings' instructions state to power between 12-16 VAC, yet I have found a sweet spot of brightness around 10-11 VAC, and it doesn't appear to do any harm, but they're all incandescent type bulbs.
What would be ideal is if all the LEDs were found to be wired in parallel, and they probably are. You can't hurt them by lowering the voltage to reduce brightness.
