Upgrading to Kadee

Not really sure why you would use the extended box on everything. That box is intended to mimic a car with a cushion underframe, where the couplers protrude out from the car ends in a large extended draft gearbox which houses a damper for smoother handling.  For most cars, the standard box is what you want to use. The point of kadees is not to keep the 4 mile gap between cars, but to close the gap down to a more prototypical distance.

"Gearbox" is probably short for "Draft gear box".

The 819 is super helpful if you have a caboose with thin cross section end platforms. This puts the mounting locations on the frame/floor. Here’s some 3D printed copies I made for a Weaver N5c. I need the mounting holes a little further back, pretty much the same concept as the 819:

@Boilermaker1 posted:

. . . The point of kadees is not to keep the 4 mile gap between cars, but to close the gap down to a more prototypical distance.

I thought it was only a 3 mile gap.

I am assuming if you use the Kadee couplers on an engine you lose the capability of automatic coupling and decoupling?

@Devildog posted:

I am assuming if you use the Kadee couplers on an engine you lose the capability of automatic coupling and decoupling?

Right. But,,,,,,,,,the Kadee couples look better, do NOT come-apart when pulling cars (even VERY long trains), and the couple together without having to bash the claws together. In all the years I used Kadee couplers, both in HO and then in 3RS, I NEVER had one break!

While you're on the subject I have 3 rail 054 curves. Would Kadee's be an issue with nothing bigger than a scale size 50 foot box car? Also if running on 3 rail track do I have to switch to scale wheels?

@Hot Water posted:

Right. But,,,,,,,,,the Kadee couples look better, do NOT come-apart when pulling cars (even VERY long trains), and the couple together without having to bash the claws together. In all the years I used Kadee couplers, both in HO and then in 3RS, I NEVER had one break!

Absolutely!! I swear by Kadee couplers. I used them when I was in HO and in O scale 2 rails.

@Dave Ripp. posted:

While you're on the subject I have 3 rail 054 curves. Would Kadee's be an issue with nothing bigger than a scale size 50 foot box car?

Probably not, even with properly mounted, body mount Kadee couplers.

Also if running on 3 rail track do I have to switch to scale wheels?

No. Although, depending on your track and turnout brand, you could even operate scaled wheeled 2-Rail SCALE freight equipment. On our layout (now gone), we had Atlas O solid nickel silver track & turnouts, with all the turnouts modified (a shim added to the top of each guard rail in order to make it the same height as the stock rail), and I operated many, MANY 2-Rail SCALE freight cars without issues.

Ray,

You have more ambition that  I!!!!.  What is difference for an 819???  Assume 805 is plastic.  

@Mike Desing posted:

Ray,

You have more ambition that  I!!!!.  What is difference for an 819???  Assume 805 is plastic.  

No. The Kadee #805 is a metal gear box AND metal coupler. Virtually every piece of motive power and rolling stock I had were ALL up-graded to Kadee #805s, until Kadee came out with the #750 series of more "scale-like" couplers, which were again all metal. Personally I NEVER liked the "plastic" gearbox, and never used them.

To answer some of your questions. See photos attached.

By using the 819 extended draft gear box, I was able to mount the box directly onto the caboose and tender trucks. By using the 819, I didn't have to drill holes into the frame, especially the caboose. Also, I didn't have to make any shims to accommodate the Kadee couplers. This was a time saver for me.

The Right of Way caboose has a lip at on the underside end, requiring some type of shim. And the mounting holes for an 805 would have shown through at the platform. So an extended shim would have been required. The 819 solved these problems on the caboose.

As for the Lionel 2-8-2 tender, I could have used an 805, and drilled holes into the frame. But when I test fit the 819, it was a no brainer. It worked just fine.

The 819 is held to the truck mounting pad (where the LARGE coupler was installed) with a 2-56 screw, washer and nut. Are they perfect, maybe not, but they are darn close. And they work great!

As for automatic un-coulping, well I don't see that as an issue on my layout. I have a tool I use to uncouple cars. And when I run trains on my Club's layout, (Golden Gate Lionel RR Club) the yard to set out cars is only inches from the edge of the layout.

RAY

Nice work Ray!

Yes Ray very nice work.  I will have to do that on my GN caboose too!  Nothing like copying

Indeed... those look great! It might be significant that Kadee designed and made these. Seems like they were thinking about the 3R Scale approach (?)

Mark in Oregon (home to Kadee) 🙂

Great stuff!  I never knew these existed!  Does @marker know?

Thanks!

- Mario

Did you use the Kadee coupler height gage when you started changing over ?

Clem k,

YES, I always use the Kadee coupler gauge, number 812, for all my conversions. Although the 805 is my go to coupler, I sometimes had to use a shim on some of my freight cars. Kadee has a broad range of couplers in O gauge to fit almost all applications.

When I was modeling in HO, as early as the1960's, all my engines and cars had Kadee's. These early couplers where slightly different. If any of the old-timers, like me, remember, they had straight pins but did not use magnets to uncouple. When Kadee changed the design, I think in the late 1970's, I changed out all our older Kadee's and never looked back.

RAY

Does anyone know of replacement wheels that have flanges slightly smaller then those found on Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc but slightly larger than on a scale 2 rail wheels? Some of the 2 rail scale trucks don't track well on Gargraves track and on some Ross turnouts.

@Ray of sunshine posted:

Does anyone know of replacement wheels that have flanges slightly smaller then those found on Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc but slightly larger than on a scale 2 rail wheels? Some of the 2 rail scale trucks don't track well on Gargraves track and on some Ross turnouts.

Commercially, no.  But older 2 rail scale trucks frequently have larger flanged wheelsets than on more modern ones, so you might be able to scavenge some from 2 rail modelers doing upgrades

I guess I could find someone that has a lathe and then turn down the flanges on my cars. For the most part, it appears to me that the flanges on 3 rail engines, steam and diesel, are not as big as they are on cars. At least that is what I notice on my Atlas and Lionel engines.

@mwb posted:

Commercially, no.  But older 2 rail scale trucks frequently have larger flanged wheelsets than on more modern ones, so you might be able to scavenge some from 2 rail modelers doing upgrades

Ray,

I have some that I will bring over. You can see if any of them will work for you.

I have been testing  kadees on my layout excellent results on 54 inch curves same on 42inch curves I have an industral area with 32inch curves but I think they will be fine. Keep in mind these are nothing over 40ft the era I model 40's 50's 60's.

I forgot I have started testing ways to install the Kadee uncoupling magnets between the center and outer rail without causing a short. And yes I use a Kadee hieght gauge.

There are a number of (how to) video's on you tube that are helpful in converting # rail 0 to Kadee's as well as how to deal with the uncoupling magnet

Thanks for the tip Dave I'll check it out.

@TRAINVHASER posted:

I have been testing  kadees on my layout excellent results on 54 inch curves same on 42inch curves I have an industral area with 32inch curves but I think they will be fine. Keep in mind these are nothing over 40ft the era I model 40's 50's 60's.

Tis a slippery slope you’re traveling down. 🤣

@Ray of sunshine posted:

Clem k,

. . .

RAY

Does anyone know of replacement wheels that have flanges slightly smaller then those found on Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc but slightly larger than on a scale 2 rail wheels? Some of the 2 rail scale trucks don't track well on Gargraves track and on some Ross turnouts.

This is another slippery slope, but if you can get the old style Code 172 wheel sets they have enough flange depth to keep from derailing in most situations. I've had good luck with modern Atlas-O 2-rail cars on the club layout, but they HATE being backed through curved turnouts. Also, the Intermountain #20050 O scale wheel sets fit fairly well in MTH trucks -- perfect in the Weaver plastic and Athearn trucks. Don't use these with truck-mounted couplers, though as the coupler will try to twist the wheels off the track in sharp curves.

I recently by mistake bought some old Weaver 2 rail O 60 foot  war gons came with Kadee's already installed.  They work great on 54 inch curves if  you put ends with brake wheel on oppiset sides every  other car. That way the brake wheel will hit each each other on curves bind and derail. I'am going to try this method on 42inch curve and see what happens.