Using a WBB sound board

The sound board should work fine in the caboose, so something is amiss.  Does the board connect directly to track power?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The sound board should work fine in the caboose, so something is amiss.  Does the board connect directly to track power?

Yes, I spliced it to the pick up on the caboose and attached the other lead to the frame.

Sounds like for some reason it's getting a DC offset to trigger the horn.  Either that or the sound board is broken.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sounds like for some reason it's getting a DC offset to trigger the horn.  Either that or the sound board is broken.

I’m going to try it again using track powered by ZW rather than Z4000. I’ve had other problems that only existed with the Z4000.

I recently put a WBB horn/bell/sound unit in a standard gauge engine.  It connects directly to track power.  I'm using a Z-1000 and the horn beeps when the button is pushed.  The bell starts ringing on one push of the bell button and continues until the button is pressed again.  Shouldn't a Z-1000 and Z-4000 work similarly in this regard?

@Mallard4468 posted:

I recently put a WBB horn/bell/sound unit in a standard gauge engine.  It connects directly to track power.  I'm using a Z-1000 and the horn beeps when the button is pushed.  The bell starts ringing on one push of the bell button and continues until the button is pressed again.  Shouldn't a Z-1000 and Z-4000 work similarly in this regard?

Thanks for sharing! Is a TIU involved?

Using a ZW

Ising a Z4000

Is the bell ringing on it's own in the videos?  You didn't provide any explanation.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Is the bell ringing on its own in the videos?  You didn't provide any explanation.

Sorry, the bell rings when I hit the whistle button. I guess it would need the add on button. But I need the sound to work across all 3 tracks; 1 ZW, 2 Z4000

The bell ringing when you hit the whistle means either the transformer or the sound board is wired to power reversed.  The U terminal of the ZW should go to the outside rail, and the "wheels" on the sound board should obviously also go to the frame.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The bell ringing when you hit the whistle means either the transformer or the sound board is wired to power reversed.  The U terminal of the ZW should go to the outside rail, and the "wheels" on the sound board should obviously also go to the frame.

I thought about that; I never had a use before but didn’t LIONEL make a switch to  enable the ZW to blow a whistle or ring a bell? That would only make the track powered by the ZW functional. There’s still the issue of the horn blowing constantly on tracks powered by the Z4000. Malllard4468 noted full control using a Z1000. Is there a difference between the two Zs other than the power output? Or is it the TIU?

Not sure what is going on with the Z4000, but the fact that the ZW doesn't create the continuous sound issue suggests it's certainly something with the Z4000 or it's connection to the tracks.  The board is seeing a DC offset.  Have you cleaned the track and wheels/pickups on the locomotive?

@pennsyfan posted:

Thanks for sharing! Is a TIU involved?

TIU is not involved - running directly off the transformer.

To follow up on my earlier post, I put the same loco on a track that is powered by a Z-4000.  Behavior is the same as with the Z-1000.

You can use an electrical tester to see if the horn and bell buttons are generating the DC offset.  The offset should occur only when the button is being pushed. 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The bell ringing when you hit the whistle means either the transformer or the sound board is wired to power reversed.  The U terminal of the ZW should go to the outside rail, and the "wheels" on the sound board should obviously also go to the frame.

@pennsyfan posted:

I thought about that; I never had a use before but didn’t LIONEL make a switch to  enable the ZW to blow a whistle or ring a bell? That would only make the track powered by the ZW functional. There’s still the issue of the horn blowing constantly on tracks powered by the Z4000. Malllard4468 noted full control using a Z1000. Is there a difference between the two Zs other than the power output? Or is it the TIU?

Just a heads up...  The instruction sheet that was included with my WBB sound unit had the relationship between the wires and horn / bell sounds reversed.   Doesn't hurt anything, but it can cause the horn to be triggered by the bell button and vice versa.  If pressing the bell button triggers the horn, just reverse the connections in the engine.

This is a very curious problem. When I built the steeplecab, I tested the sound board and the whole WbB 44-tonner donor locomotive on the conventional loop on my layout, which runs with a Z4000. I had no problems using the horn or bell sounds with my transformer. Maybe not all Z4000s are built the same-- mine is about 8 years old and has never been problematic.

Have you tried running it directly from the Z-4000?  If you connect the Z-4000 directly to the track (or use a test track) you can confirm or eliminate it as the source of the problem. 

Thanks for all the input. I was just checking it again and when I moved the caboose I saw sparks at the wheel bearing. After moving it around some it started working as designed. Lesson learned; I  took this caboose off the shelf, my only criteria was that it had a pickup roller. I put it on the track and the lamp lit. So I took it apart and connected the sound board. I will now completely clean the wheels and bearings as well as the roller. Embarrassing moments, thanks again for all the input.

@pennsyfan posted:

Thanks for all the input. I was just checking it again and when I moved the caboose I saw sparks at the wheel bearing. After moving it around some it started working as designed. Lesson learned; I  took this caboose off the shelf, my only criteria was that it had a pickup roller. I put it on the track and the lamp lit. So I took it apart and connected the sound board. I will now completely clean the wheels and bearings as well as the roller. Embarrassing moments, thanks again for all the input.

Bingo, the poor connection sometimes acts as a rectifier and produces a DC offset, that's probably what you were seeing.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bingo, the poor connection sometimes acts as a rectifier and produces a DC offset, that's probably what you were seeing.

Thanks again John.