Very loud BPC2 relay

Don't bolt it to plywood. It's a relay, it's going to make an audible click. It's going to make a louder click when mounted to a board with solid screw mounting.

@Vernon Barry posted:

Don't bolt it to plywood. It's a relay, it's going to make an audible click. It's going to make a louder click when mounted to a board with solid screw mounting.

Its not just a loud click.  Its a constant vibration while thrown in one direction.  Yes, I have it screwed into plywood.

EDITED

OK, so now it's a buzzing sound when the relay is activated.

In addition, we don't know your wiring or power setup. The BPC2 requires external power to activate and power the relays (beyond the PDI cable and it's power supply) specifically 12-14V.

Per the manual. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...inalownersmanual.pdf

Just throwing this out there, what voltage and power source are you using? Wondering if too high a voltage is used, and that then causes a louder (and potentially hotter) click sound to the relay, and might not be ideal.

Sorry, while I was researching the manual and grabbing info, you posted and saw your description of the sound.

A buzzing sound sorta sounds like a relay not fully actuated, or being actuated with excess current/voltage?

Again, too low a voltage, might not pull the relay closed fully to stop buzzing, a chopped power or other distorted power source could cause similar problems maybe?

@Vernon Barry posted:

Sorry, while I was researching the manual and grabbing info, you posted and saw your description of the sound.

A buzzing sound sorta sounds like a relay not fully actuated, or being actuated with excess current/voltage?

Again, too low a voltage, might not pull the relay closed fully to stop buzzing, a chopped power or other distorted power source could cause similar problems maybe?

Thanks again for the reply Vernon!  I have a dedicated CW80 powering all LCS boxes (I have 15 now) as well as all of my DZ2500 switch machines (currently 8).  I've set the voltage on the accessory pole of the CW80 to 13V.  Fluke confirmed this voltage to the box.  If I toggle the relay a few times I can get it to sometimes not be as loud.

CW80 is a rather distorted waveform (FYI, I have done testing and repairs on these-yes, both old and the newest versions) even on the accessory output. Again, at partial output (12-13V) it's definitely not as clean as I would like.

Personally, I use a Z4000 with 14V fixed (non adjustable direct) output rather than electronically trying to adjust what is an 18V core transformer to what reads 13V on a meter. That's the way the adjustable outputs work on modern transformers, they use electronics to typically chop up the waveform.

Options?

You could slightly turn up the CW80 to 14V measured output- hoping that cleans up the power and pulls the relay more fully against the coil stopping the buzzing.

Try a different fixed 14V transformer? (example Z1000 brick has a known accessory 14V output) or another off the shelf transformer.

Again, per video and testing, the CW80 cleans up slightly better the higher you go. On one hand, they don't reach 18V on the earlier ones (max output is limited due to the electronics) and likely you have some room to climb from the 13V you are at now to more like 14V adjustment point and be within the ratings the manual calls out for the BPC2.

I don't normally say turning up voltage on accessories is the best fix, but in this rare case, actually it might matter.

I would assume a totally analog ZW output set to 14V would achieve the same goal, correct?  That would at least confirm your theory.

I don't see the old CW-80 cleaning up at all at full throttle.  Looks pretty ugly at any setting.  I haven't seen the new transformer on my bench to see what it's waveforms look like, but it's hard to believe they're worse!

CW80 Full Throttle

CW80 Half Throttle

CW80 Full Throttle, 2A Load

+

CW80 Half Throttle, 2A Load

@LionelAG posted:

I would assume a totally analog ZW output set to 14V would achieve the same goal, correct?  That would at least confirm your theory.

Yes, good oldschool roller tap based selection of voltage on a ZW is more ideal. Should be pure sine wave output.

You guys are awesome!!  Problem solved.  The output on the CW80 was so dirty that when I switched over to the ZW output I had a whole slew of electronics go quiet.  Cleaned up the noise from a bunch of DZ-1008 relays.  Many thanks for your insight.  For the record I have an old and new model CW80; one on the test bench and one on the layout for running/testing these articles.

Since GRJ is on the thread and he uses a lot of the same LCS components, I have one additional question...

Would the serial signal off the CSM2 be adversely affected by powering it with a CW80?  I have had random situations where the CSM2 serial signal totally throws off the DZ-2500 switch machine.

How much does this chopped wave problem affect these LCS electronics?

I love this forum!!!