Weaver Penn Central B60 Baggage Car Project - FINISHED 06/09/13

Nick,

 

Got just the stuff for you paintwise, but can't remember the name.

 

I get home from work I'll e-mail it to you.  Works and looks great!

 

TTYL!

 

Buff

Nick,

 

I used PollyScale Penn Central Green (F414368) on the transfer caboose I built.  I used Microscale decals from several sets:

• 48-647  O scale Penn Central Diesels
• 87-84   HO scale Penn Central Diesels
• 87-1095 HO scale PennCentral Box Cars with NYC style numbers
• 87-1286 HO scale Penn Central & NYC Cabooses
• 87-1097 HO scale Penn Central 86' Hi-Cube Box Cars
• 87-1098 HO scale Penn Central Non-Standard Boxcar Lettering

It looks like the numbers on the baggage care are NYC style.  There should be something in these sets that duplicates the graphics you need.  Hope this helps.

 

Tom 

Nick,

 

I've been using Badger Precision Decision Model Flex number 16-90 Penn Central green.  I absolutely love it.  Great to use.  Covers easily and well and doesn't seem to fade.  I would definitely recommend it.

 

Good luck!

 

Buff

Thanks guys. The Penn Central greens you mention, aren't they more along the lines of the lighter NYC jade green? Because it would seem these B60s really were more of a darker Pullman green, unless the paint is just that grimy in the photos.

That's probably dirt over "century" green.  If PC painted anything it was either black or that fade in an instant green.  There would have been no reason to use Pullman colors as this was long after Pullman was out of the passenger service support arena.

I want to agree Chuck, but the one possibility I'm trying to eliminate before I commit to the usual Century / Jade green is if any of these cars were painted a darker green from a railroad inherited by the merger, and all the PC did was re-badge them on top of the existing paint job. If this was the case, I'd want to properly replicate it.

 

Hopefully CNJ Bob will see this thread soon. He really seems to be one of the most knowledgeable guys out there on these little intricacies.

Weren't the B60s from PRR?  If so, they would have originally been tuscan red, if I'm correct.  I believe that the green paint was applied by PC.

 

Tom

Okay, was able to back track on the photo I found in my original post and get to the album it comes from. The green appears in a few different shades under different lighting and as the car ages, but it does appear that Chuck was correct about the weathering over the true color. The info also says this one is ex-PRR, so that further confirms a repaint. I can probably toss my concerns about the darker green at this point.

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...icture.aspx?id=55535

 

Also found a model made by Walthers in HO. They went for the variation with the white stripe:

 

I got one of these years ago at a show that someone had painted and weathered in a brown NYCentral. I'm guessing for work train service they did a really nice job but I've never seen brown NYC passenger cars let alone a B60. I think I paid $10 for one of those project things that I'm sure we all have too many of.

I think there is a photo of that car on one of the web sites and it was kind of grey under the grime.  I remember as a child having to ride a Lexington Ave subway that I swore was chocolate syrup brown (thing Hershey's).  The grime on the cars was so thick and set that it just looked like that color.  To this day I don't know what color they really were but I think they were originally light gray (like 20-30 years in the past).

Tom, can you tell me which one of these sets has that little star in it? And the HO numbers aren't too small for O?

 

The B60 itself arrived yesterday. Paint soon.

 

Nick,

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the star decal in any of the decal sets that I have.  I'm sure that somebody has a star decal that would work, but I have no idea where to look.

 

The decal sets that I mentioned have a variety of lettering sizes and logos.  The size available may not be exactly scale, but it will be very close.

 

James Kinkaid's Penn Central Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment has a couple of photos of PC B60 cars on page 5.  One is the scheme that you have pictured.  The other has a slightly different scheme.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tom 

Thanks for the info Tom, I'll ask around for the star decal.

 

Here's the progress for tonight. Primed the bare plastic with Tamiya Surface Primer for plastic as recommended by Lucas Liska, then sprayed with Pollyscale Penn Central green. The black roof and decaling will be completed when I return from a trip to NY next week.

 

Three observations on the green coat:

 

1. These B60s must have been really caked in doo-doo because the fresh green is quite vibrant. I've been told a good clear coat will darken it a touch.

 

2. I really did not want to spend the money on an airbrush with a miniature car sprayer at my disposal. It applied the paint run-free, but man is the surface grainy. Almost feels like fine sandpaper. Can't see it from more than a foot away and I was again told a good clear coat will help smooth it out.

 

3. The manufacturers really can't seem to decide on a shade for Penn Central green. Lionel and MTH are on top, Atlas is on the bottom:

 

 

 

Here's a mockup of the car at the end of a train. Try to imagine the roof is black for now.

 

 

Relying on any of those manufactures/imports to get colors "right" is an exercise in futility.

 

For that matter, could PC itself ever decide on what PC green was?

I have 2-3 bottle of old Floquil PC green; wonder how that stacks up to reality,

That green was a nightmare for the Railroad.  I've never seen anything that weathered as quickly or as poorly as that green.  I grew up in the New York metropolitan area and the box cars and equipment would chalk up within a few weeks.  Once they stopped cleaning the equipment the dirt, chalk, grime made for an interesting pattern to try and replicate.  Definitely not "weatherbeater" quality paint.

Looking good, Nick.

 

The clear coat will cover up a multitude of sins.  It makes decal film disappear.  I did break down and purchace an air brush several years ago.  It was worth every penny spent.  It is amazing how often I use it, even for non-train projects.

 

I agree with the lack of consistancy as far as the shade of green goes.  I would put my money on the PolyScale or Atlas.  Lionel is definitly too "bright".  MTH looks like it is already weathered. Going from my memory, and looking at photos, I don't remember seeing two PC paint jobs that were the same shade of green.  Fading, dirt and even different paint formulations from different facilities provided an array of shades. 

 

All in all, I think your B60 looks great.  Keep us posted on your progress.

 

Tom

[ Sorry to take so long in jumping in on this topic, but it's been a busy two weeks, and I couldn't immediately find the slides I wanted.]

 

While it's quite possible that the baggage car used for storage was painted in "jade green" [ especially if it had been painted by B&B forces rather than MP&E ]. most -- but, granted, not all -- PC repainted psgr equipment received a different shade of green, which MAY [ I can't recall ] have been termed "Forest Green".  Here are six examples, all taken in 1973;  there are repainted PRR and NH MU's, repainted NYC commuter coaches, a 'Congressional' coach with a green letterboard, and a coach acquired by PC in 1970 [ bonus points if you know from which rr ] that's an interesting "green above stainless".

 

Finally, off topic but interesting, is a PC business car in Amtrak colors, dating from the short lived era when Amtrak said if a rr wanted its equipment hauled in "Amtrak premier trains" [ such as they were ] like the Broadway, it had to be in Amtrak colors.

 

I hope these photos help, and give you some modelling ideas.

 

With best regards, SZ

 

Whoops;  I had 'double prints', and must have eliminated both instead.  Standby.

Thank you very much for the information SZ. That was my instinct all along on the color being darker so I went ahead and stripped the shell back down. The grainy texture was still nagging me anyway.

 

I went back to the hobby store and decided to try Pollyscale's "Coach Green". Think it'll be a better match?

 

Hi Nick,

I think your choice of using Pollyscale's "Coach Green" is much better than the "jade" that you currently have it painted with.  Before you repaint, make sure you get all of the "jade" off or the new finish will still look & feel like sandpaper as you mentioned.  Dishwashing detergent or brake fluid should do the job (Note: test brake fuid on small area inside first).  I've soaked Lionel cars in brake fluid for days at a time but maybe I just got lucky.

Regarding the "star" you're looking for, try your local hobby shop.  Look for decals used on WWII Army tanks or trucks - many of those models had single white stars on them.

Hope this helps...

Best,

Dave

I stripped the shell by soaking it for an hour in Castrol "Super Clean" and then scrubbing with a toothbrush under warm running water. Paint slid right off and the plastic was unaffected. I have heard brake fluid has the potential to melt certain plastics.

 

That's also a good idea on the WWII decals, thanks! Going to spray the new green now, will report back.

Yep, that's more like it. A very close match to the green mentioned above and this time the paint came out silk smooth. The difference proved to be a gravity-fed miniature spray gun as opposed to bottom fed.

 

I think that looks good, especially in the lower photo;  some weathering will darken it a bit more, too.

 

While such things are subjective -- and I am not a PC modeller -- I think I would be tempted to look at some of the Tamiya flat paints for a slightly darker green;  on their web site's paint chips some of the olive drab variations and "black green" look like possibilities.

 

Plus my usual disclaimers on color variations due to film, sunlight, eyeballs, monitor, blah blah blah.....   The important thing is when YOU are happy with it.

 

Best, SZ

 

 

Lookin' good Nick!  Nice job so far!!!

I'm definitely happy with Pollyscale's "Coach Green". Holding the car up to the pictures of the cleaner prototypes is almost a perfect match; I think the even darker shades are more due to dirt and grime. Since I don't get into weathering this is perfect. Now to order the decals.

Nick,

Your 2nd picture looks about "spot on" as to the right color and shade.  The first picture almost looks to me as overexposed due to the bright lighting but the 2nd, being somewhat in the shadows, is virtually a perfect match to the pix that Steinzeit posted of the real coaches (particularly #1 and #3).

 

I can't wait to see your final results - hope you find those stars!

Best,

Dave

I noticed that about the first photo too. The second one is definitely more what it looks like in person. Thanks for the compliments everyone and I should have this done by next week.

I prefer gravity feed guns too. Small or full size.

Was really hoping to have had this done by now but there's been several delays with travelling and ordering from Microscale. Because I am unable to determine the actual size of the decals before ordering, I had to make several calls and send several emails to find someone at the company who could locate the exact sets I need. Once that was completed I placed my order, but unfortunatley there was an error in the system and they were sent a week late. Received the sets today and while the numbers and stars were perfect, the mating worm logos were still the wrong size. Made another call to re-evaluate the sets and they were able to find the correct size this time (1/2 inch across) and are sending it free of charge. Once those arrive I can finish this up.

 

Here it is with preliminary gloss clear coat and decals after micro-sol application. Final clear coat will be dead flat and hide the decal film. I've also included a photo of the sets recquired for the numbers and stars as reference for anyone who wants to do this project as well.

 

Looks good Nick!

I agree.  Nice job buddy!!!

Thanks everyone. Got the other side done, those little numbers sure were a lot of work. Took around 2 hours to "eyeball" them into alignment. Now to wait for the logos to get here.

 

Got home from the university tonight and the logos were waiting for me. The right one is still wet, that's not a blemish.

 

Almost done. All logos are applied and I adjusted the numbers and star after studying the prototype photos more. The numbers weren't spaced out enough and the star was too small. All fixed now. Gotta let everything dry overnight, but I'm off to New York City tomorrow on family business. Will be back Sunday to apply the final clear coat and add the vestibules and porthole glass. I've actually decided to stick with the initial semi-gloss clear coat I used by Tamiya instead of a dead flat for the final coat. It goes on really glossy but after about a week of curing it tones down to the nice satin finish it currently is.

 

 

Final materials list (minus the tools) for all who want to take on the project:

 

• Weaver B60b Baggage Car - Undecorated - Circular Windows w/ High Profile Roof Vents - ID# G22200LD
• Tamiya Surface Primer for Plastic & Metal (Gray)
• Tamiya Color for Plastics TS-79 Semi-Gloss Clear
• Testors Universal Acrylic Thinner
• Polly Scale 404076 Coach Green (Body)
• Polly Scale F414290 Engine Black (Roof)
• MicroScale Micro Set & Micro Sol Decal Setting Solution System
• MicroScale 87-84 HO Scale Penn Central Diesels (Contains six of the correct size body logos)
• MicroScale 87-1096 HO Scale Penn Central Box Cars w/ PC Style Numbers (Contains the correct size and font body numbers)
• MicroScale 13-8 1/48 Scale U.S. Armor Codes & Insigna (Contains the correct size star above numbers)

 

Great job, Nick.  Thanks for sharing this project with everybody.  Also, thanks for the materials list for those of us who might like to undertake a similar project.

 

Tom

I second that, Tom.  Nick you did an excellent job. 

 

The right O scale decals are getting harder to find every day.  You have to 'mix and match'.

 

AF

Thanks everyone. Here it is fully assembled and with the final clear coat curing. A last word of caution, apparently Tamiya brand clear coats are very harsh on decals and must be applied in very thin mistings every hour or so until the desired coverage. I did not know this and just applied a healthy wet coat as I did the first time. All the decals wrinkled and bubbled to some degree, and I almost put my fist through the wall thinking I just ruined the whole thing but they all appear to be settling back down as the paint cures. Looks like I'll dodge the bullet this time.

 

Looks very nice, Nick.  Be sure and send Joe or Gary at Weaver some photos of the project.  I believe that they are planning on re-running both the baggage and the RPO's with both roof styles.

 

Paul Fischer

Looking great!

Paul - Didn't think to do that, an official run by Weaver would certainly be nice! Just sent them now.

 

Jim - Thanks again for hooking me up with the undecorated car!