Weekend tinplate photos 📸 and videos 📽 6/5/20!

Modern French tinplate from the 90's by AS. A Pacific K8, no die cast body or frame, all is made with brass.

Have a nice weekend, Daniel

I put this scene together for another section of this forum, but it will work well here too. I hope the Milwaukee theme is obvious!I hope everyone has a safe weekend!

This week I made a new Friend

He happens to live in the Netherlands right on the Belgian border and he happened to be selling something pretty darn rare ... I cant say I am the only one I know who has one , because that darn Fred @sncf231e

, well he has one too dammit ! Is there ANYTHING that Dutchman does not have LOL!

To be fair I only found out he had one while I was researching the Maker ( who I had never heard of ) and his video popped up , the only youtube video of one , and while Binns Rd DOES list the marque , they have no locomotive, depicted only the carriages

So I think I have built it up enough to let you all down now So ladies and Gentlemen of OGR let me present the latest addition to the FM House of Tinplate Horrors ....

The ADRIA Clockwork Locomotive .... Produced only for shorter than 2 years after the Second World War ( c1947/8 ) in Belguim ....

However all is sadly not as it appears

The locomotive is missing the main drive spring and also the side rods ... the good news is , my new Flemish Friend has the exact same model with one intact rod that he will photograph and measure so I will have a template for them , they are just plain tin with no stamping , so easily done ... and I am sure in my box of dozens of springs there will be one to suit , so she should live again!

If anyone else has one of these I would surely like to know about it , currently to my knowledge I can only account for three examples and of those only mine( hopefully) and Freds will be running versions ... There must be a few more in the wild , but they were made in small numbers ,not exported , and its been 73 years since then ... very little info on the web either ...

Oh and Freds lovely video !  ( or the Lovely Fred's video ??? )

@Fatman posted:

Oh and Freds lovely video !  ( or the Lovely Fred's video ??? )

Looks like it runs way too fast for the typical indoor layout with sharp curves.  Perhaps a partial explanation for the rarity is that many of them crashed.

@Fatman posted:

Oh and Freds lovely video !  ( or the Lovely Fred's video ??? )

Fatman's loco could be a good candidate for a Bub transplant. LOL

LOL ... and the buggers dont appear to have a governer and only an on/off brake !!!

I am going to try and keep original running gear and just sub in a spring that fits , I shall try and get hold of Fred and see if anything else is missing , but the fellow passing it on to me is pretty sure its not missing other internals than the spring , the key wind still ratchets and will only unload freely in one direction under finger load ... so she just might be a rocket !

@Jim O'C posted:

Fatman's loco could be a good candidate for a Bub transplant. LOL

I have a couple of Mech's I could slot in , and the previous owner is considering dropping a HWM mech in his , but I would like to keep it original -ish , if I can ... #FM'sGonnaWinAtTrainracing!

Do U C what I C ... Boxcars?

A medley of IC boxcars. From top to bottom - left to right - American Flyer, Fandor, Ives, Bing - Tuscan, Bing - Boxcar Red, and Bing - Brown

DANIEL: One SWEET engine! Beautiful details!

OK I cannot compete with Fatman on the rarity at all...I have personally never heard of Adria which is interesting to me since we had an office in Belgium (Brussels) that I often visited in the 80's and never encountered them although I was always looking for trains (right after mussels and beer of course).  Fantastic find. 

Ok well I also cannot compete with Robert's BOX car display so I thought I might provide a brief and limited historical review of CATTLE CARS - after all I live in TEXAS and we do have a lot (A LOT!) of COW's.  In fact where I live in Waco, in the late 1800's, the town fathers commissioned Robing (famous bridge designer of the Brooklyn Bridge later in life) in one of his young assignments to design a suspension bridge over the Brazos River.  The town charged 10 cents to cross, not for people, but per-head for cows.  This bridge took 2 weeks off of the time for the normal cattle drive to Ft. Worth and the charges paid the bridge off in less than 2 years.  It is still standing and functional but the cattle drives of course are long over.

So here are the Cattle Cars - to you direct from TEXAS...YEE -- HA!!

The Lionel 802 Stock Car from 1916 -1926 (this one about 1917 due to color scheme/wheel tread)

The follow on car . the Lionel 806 made between 1927-1934. This one with Maroon Roof/orange body /brass plates/ Ni journals made between 1927-1929

The most recent pre - war version in the  "650" series , the 656, made with rubber stamping vice brass plates from 1939-41.

There is also a grey/red version with plates made earlier from 1935-1940

Finally the post war version, the Lionel 656 made from 1949-1955

Of course we have the Marx version, made for a very long time from 1936-1977 depending on trim color, details, and type of coupler.  These tab/slot couplers date it to sometime before 1953 but otherwise it is tough to tell when it was made.

Finally a foreign interpretation, the Hornby Type 1 Cattle Wagon made between 1949 -1954

And the Hafner version dating from about 1938 -1951

OK I have taken up enough space, have a good weekend everyone.

Don

Just another junk box piece. When ever I get the chance I buy junk boxes. I like redoing pieces like this gondola. 

I love your "researching-fu " Don-san! @Don McErlean

If we had a love child , between your research-fu and my oddity locating-fu we could rule the planet

Muhuhuhawwwww !

( Toss in Arne , Frenchy, NWL, and a few other venerables from here into the genetics and conquest of the galaxy might not be a stretch )

Fatman:  What can I say!!  I loved your message and LOL at the thoughts!  Thanks for posting.

Don

Well I know that I have taken up a lot of space this weekend, but I wanted to post this especially for FRENCHTRAINS / Daniel.

I just received (from e-bay) after waiting about 1 1/2 months, a French Hornby type PO electric loco made, I believe, between 1949-1953 although some versions may even be earlier but this one appears to be from the vintage of the '50's, certainly post war. It is the less expensive version with "bent wire" pantographs and manual reverse.  It is post French nationalization as it carries the "SNCF" markings and color (?).   It has a dull green color and cream roof and the 20 volt motor.  The second thing that I received on Saturday is a French Hornby Voiture Restaurant Car, dating to perhaps 1954.  I combine it with my Pullmans that I posted in the tinplate section a few weeks ago and we have a matching train.

Now Daniel my imaginary French passengers will be taken to their destinations by a smooth powerful electric locomotive with no cinders or smoke and can enjoy the beautiful French countryside through the windows of their Pullman coaches and now when they are hungry they can go back to the restaurant car for some wonderful French cuisine. 

Here is the full train view.  Loco, 2 Pullmans, and the restaurant car. I am sorry, Daniel, I did not know French RR practice as to whether the restaurant car would be first or last or in between.  American practice used all 3 locations depending on the make up of the consist.

A close shot of the PO locomotive ready to leave the station

An evening shot, ready for express travel and a pleasant evening trip

A following shot, the last car is the restaurant car which carries that title on the side .

The loco runs very well and pulls this little train with no difficulty.  It was fun watching it go around my little layout and imagining those passengers enjoying their trip and perhaps their dinner.

Don

@Pete in Kansas posted:

Just another junk box piece. When ever I get the chance I buy junk boxes. I like redoing pieces like this gondola. 

Here's another car from the same junk box. At one time it was a very nice lithographed American Flyer RPO car. By the time i got it there was a lot of rust and pitting as well as a large gash all the way along one side. I was thinking about stripping the parts and throwing it out but then I'd only have 2 AF passenger cars and that would just be too short for a train. After stripping, brass brushing the rust , knocking out the dents, and red leading as best as I could it got repainted in Rustoleum Hunter Green.   It's not perfect but it looks good enough for me to run and didn't end up in the trash.

PeteinKansas:  Great work, both cars.  Now they are still running around and giving people joy.  Much much better than rusting away in some landfill. Thanks for posting, gives me a little impetus to do some of my restoration jobs.

Don

Well while @Don McErlean was poaching my French Hornby , I thought it only reasonable that a retaliatory strike was needed to plunge fear and terror deep into his Francophile Texan heart !!!

( or I might have bought it completely unrelatedly cos its cool ... to me anyway )

Picked up a 1937(?) Lionel 1689e which again suprisingly was here in Aussie , so substantive postal charge savings pour moi ! ...

Shes a roughy but I am presuming not that common? Certainly over this side of the hemisphere anyway ...

Unsure as to running state , will assume it needs some fettling , but judging by the wear on her wheels she kept someone very happy for a long long time !

Hello Don,  you have a nice Hornby set, the PO loco is post war and it is a less common version in that color. The place for the restaurant car in France is the same than in USA, generally in the middle of the train but if needed it may be in front or anywhere.

Enjoy that piece from the fifties, Daniel

Frenchtrains / Daniel :  thank you for your kind note and the information on where to place the restaurant car.  Thank you also for your confirmation that the loco is post war and your info on the color.  Data on French Hornby is very scarce in the USA. 

Fatman :  AHA - so you would plunder my hoard ...Ah Matey! now that's a challenge   Hey, that is really a nice piece.  I agree according to my references the 1689E was offered in 1936-37 as both a "Lionel Jr" and an O-27 engine.  As was true for many of those engines in those days the actual casting of the loco was identical to the 289e which was sold as an O gauge engine, although the motors were different, (you can tell easily as the 0-27 motor has the copper "slider" type pick up like yours and the O gauge motor has rollers).  You seem to have both of the red marker lights, which is really a lucky thing as they are often missing and quite vulnerable.  The 1689e should have a slot in the top of the cap for the reverse unit lever while the 289e has no slot (reverse units are mounted differently in the two loco's).  You can tell the two years of offer apart, 1936 it was gun metal with the 1689T or 1689W (the only difference is that the "W" has a whistle). In 1937 the engine was black.  Based on the pictures I would say your 1689e is 1936.  Interestingly my reference (Greenberg) says it was only sold in sets, never offered for single sale. 

The two sets it came in were:

1. Outfit 1067E or W ... 2 number 1690 Pullmans and a 1691 observation.  I don't have a color but it was likely red/cream.

2. Outfit 1068 E or W...1679 Boxcar, 1680 Oil Car , 1682 Caboose

I can post more data on the cars if you want it.

Great find...

Don

Don, ouch, ouch ,ouch - compete?  On this thread?  Never!  For me it is all about trying to post pictures of tinplate that others might find interesting and looking forward to see what everyone else has brought to the gallery.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who never ceases to be amazed at the fantastic array of tinplate - lots of which I either have never seen except in a catalog cut or just plain never seen.  My only gripe is the moving of this thread to the photo album but that's water over the dam so - I'll just press on and enjoy the weekly visual feast of interesting trains.

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Don, ouch, ouch ,ouch - compete?  On this thread?  Never!  For me it is all about trying to post pictures of tinplate that others might find interesting and looking forward to see what everyone else has brought to the gallery.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who never ceases to be amazed at the fantastic array of tinplate - lots of which I either have never seen except in a catalog cut or just plain never seen.  My only gripe is the moving of this thread to the photo album but that's water over the dam so - I'll just press on and enjoy the weekly visual feast of interesting trains.

This ... exactly ... right down to the photo album move ( fruzzen frizzen gaaaaahhhh!!!)

( Oh except when it comes to Don stealing mah Frenchy Hornby )

I managed to make an extra special ( for me anyway) buy from Spain this week ... but it might not be what anyone is thinking .... ooohhhh Mystery!!!

I have already posted two new items this week , maybe I should delay posting them to this fridays thread and build suspense !

@Don McErlean I actually found a great set of freight cars for it including the tender , but due to the seller insisting on using that bloody "epay global shipping scammage " its just too prohibitive for me cost-wise .. adding over $100AUD to the auction cost !!! even tho it's tempting ( and besides I just  blew the budget in Spain LOL )

@Fatman posted:

due to the seller insisting on using that bloody "epay global shipping scammage " its just too prohibitive for me cost-wise .. adding over $100AUD to the auction cost !!! even tho it's tempting ( and besides I just  blew the budget in Spain LOL )

I sold something a few years ago to someone overseas and ebay automatically directed me to use their "global shipping" and I never even knew the buyer's address.  I have to say that I was pretty disgusted with it as a seller.  I am not sure how much it cost the buyer, but it took over a month for the buyer to get their item.  As a seller, I would have preferred to send it directly, as I know I could have kept the cost lower for the buyer and I think it would have reached the buyer quicker.  I know that I have bought and sold things internationally through ebay before this system and had no problems.

NWL

@Nation Wide Lines I think "epay" must be opting sellers into it as a default , because it is rife on epay USA , although other countries are using it more and more too ... For the seller who wants to be lazy and whack on a label and post ( because it costs them nada) its probably a godsend , but it sure as heck ain't right ... Add in the fact that our Goverment has a deal with PayPal to collect the 10% GST ( Goods and Services Tax) on every purchase AND on the postage as well when you make your payment thru PP....., then because its GSP they hit you AGAIN for "import fees" and "posting" Both at vastly inflated rates .. so in actuality us Aussies get hit for real Tax, Fake Tax , and inflated shipping . the buyer in effect pays for the shipping to Pittney Bowes and then international postage + a mythical amount they add on "For their... cough* Service" ... It riles me

@Fatman posted:

@Nation Wide Lines I think "epay" must be opting sellers into it as a default , because it is rife on epay USA , although other countries are using it more and more too ... For the seller who wants to be lazy and whack on a label and post ( because it costs them nada) its probably a godsend , but it sure as heck ain't right ... Add in the fact that our Goverment has a deal with PayPal to collect the 10% GST ( Goods and Services Tax) on every purchase AND on the postage as well when you make your payment thru PP....., then because its GSP they hit you AGAIN for "import fees" and "posting" Both at vastly inflated rates .. so in actuality us Aussies get hit for real Tax, Fake Tax , and inflated shipping . the buyer in effect pays for the shipping to Pittney Bowes and then international postage + a mythical amount they add on "For their... cough* Service" ... It riles me

 

Complicated issue - understand the frustration and wish I knew the answer.  I've bought a few things that were shipped across the pond (no issues, thankfully), but haven't shipped anything internationally as a seller, and I wouldn't know where to start.  On one hand, with today's computerized tracking one would think it should get easier and less expensive to ship overseas.  On the other hand, different systems of regulation/taxation/customs and international tensions about shipping costs make it more difficult.  With the increased use of online buying, this seems like an opportunity for someone. 

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Don, ouch, ouch ,ouch - compete?  On this thread?  Never!  For me it is all about trying to post pictures of tinplate that others might find interesting and looking forward to see what everyone else has brought to the gallery.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who never ceases to be amazed at the fantastic array of tinplate - lots of which I either have never seen except in a catalog cut or just plain never seen.  My only gripe is the moving of this thread to the photo album but that's water over the dam so - I'll just press on and enjoy the weekly visual feast of interesting trains.

Alan seemed to be open to moving it back after I pointed out the advantage of keeping all the tinplate threads together- mainly for ease of finding tinplate info- particularly for newcomers. Maybe if it was retitled 'Weekend tinplate gathering" or something. All the threads have photos and videos now, so the difference between this thread and others has become moot. But like you say, that water might be over the dam.

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Don, ouch, ouch ,ouch - compete?  On this thread?  Never!  For me it is all about trying to post pictures of tinplate that others might find interesting and looking forward to see what everyone else has brought to the gallery.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who never ceases to be amazed at the fantastic array of tinplate - lots of which I either have never seen except in a catalog cut or just plain never seen.  My only gripe is the moving of this thread to the photo album but that's water over the dam so - I'll just press on and enjoy the weekly visual feast of interesting trains.

I guess there is always some form of competition in collecting, but lately for me it is all about the information that one can learn from others and/or various sources and also the friends I have made over the years.

I think that the early history of toy trains is fascinating and it appears that there is still undiscovered information out there.....

So look for some new and previously unreported American Flyer history in the upcoming TCA Quarterly!

NWL

Robert S. Butler / NWL :  My "competition" with Fatman was just a joke and for fun...I agree with you both that the real purpose of this thread is to post pictures and information on items so that others can learn.  I have truly learned a great deal from what you two, Fatman, Arnie, Will, Frenchtrains, and others post and I hope I have been able to contribute in some small way. I love researching the items I acquire and like NWL said, to me the history is part of the fun.

Fatman:  I am sure you have as much material as I do, but just in case you don't.  For your 1689e the freights that came with the two sets I listed for 1936 are not (surprisingly) all that rare, but making sure you have the proper lithography for the year (1936) can be a bit of a challenge.  For the oil car, Lionel changed the design (position of the letters, SUNOCO name, etc) and the colors (silver or grey) year by year.  The Box car went through similar changes, roof color, design (Baby Ruth lettering, Candy bar picture or not, etc) again seemingly new each year.  The tender is a piece of cake, it came only 2 ways in gunmetal either with or without a whistle but that is the only change.  Obviously in 1937 it came in black as did the engine.  The 1690 / 1691 litho passenger cars are easy by comparison, they came from 1936 - 1939 one way : dark red body and roof, cream windows, red solid upper window section with black speckles, nickel handrails and journals. Just to make your day, in regards to the outrageous cost of shipping to Australia , I just bought off of e-bay a 3 car set of these exact passenger cars for $43 USD for all 3 cars including postage from a US origin to a US destination.  Their condition is "good" and they are complete and run well.   These cars when numbered 1691/1692 as would be proper with your engine in the sets offered only came in variations of the red/cream coloring.  However the same basic car,  came in two other color schemes: green-blue numbered 1692 / 1693   and yellow-brown (marked as Ives although manufactured by Lionel) only available in 1932-1933.  Either of these two variations are much more rare.

OK . Sorry for the late post since its Tuesday

Don

Ives RR Lines

Lionel - Ives Lines

Lionel Lines

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

PS  I believe that there is one more version of these cars which is yellow bodied and blue roofed, with a matching electric outline engine.

Greg:  really good display of these litho passenger cars.  The "Ives Lines" cars and loco are truly unusual made only in '32-33

My set I just got are the later color scheme, light red coach / light red roof/ red over windows with black speckles/ yellow trim and windows.  Mine have fish bellies, Ni handrails and Ni journals.  Greenberg notes in his Vol II that these cars in this color scheme were made both with and without door handles.  Do your light red cars have fishbellies, I can see that they have door handles.  I believe mine likely date from the later period of production like '38-'39.

Just arrived today and need a bit of cleaning and work, but at $12 each, who can complain.

.

Don

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

I sold something a few years ago to someone overseas and ebay automatically directed me to use their "global shipping" and I never even knew the buyer's address.  I have to say that I was pretty disgusted with it as a seller.  I am not sure how much it cost the buyer, but it took over a month for the buyer to get their item.  As a seller, I would have preferred to send it directly, as I know I could have kept the cost lower for the buyer and I think it would have reached the buyer quicker.  I know that I have bought and sold things internationally through ebay before this system and had no problems.

NWL

i believe there is a box you can UNcheck to eliminate the forced auto use of their mailing system. It s automatically checked and you have to undo it.

Steve

@Don McErlean Thank you again for your wonderful sharing of research and insight ... in a heck of a coincidence I am pretty sure that set you bought for $43 was the sort of set that kicked off my Global Shipping rave LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL !!! I was all over it for $43 but then one glimpse at the GSP caused me brain malfunction!!!

Yes it seems these cars are not that rare to find and I admit I am not a rivet counting despot when it comes to assembling a rake , but period correct works for me mainly

Perhaps I have been bitten by the wrong bug to be a train collector as I tend to focus on locomotives and then the rake which is just something to pull around behind them ( Am I being sacriligeous here ? LOL )

Of course its always nice to complete a set , but with esp. American stuff , I have to buy what I can afford to import and with that **** GSP that probably eliminates 60%-75% of the market for me ... eg a $10 US common as heck carriage can inflate into a $60US or $70US item and the Tax charges by both PP and the GSP can then cost you MORE than the actual item you are buying @$10 LOL! (as you also pay tax on the shipping component )

I just got two locos and two tenders shipped from Spain for a combined spend of 28 Euro lol ( $32 US ) I would pay that everyday

I do realise that I am sounding a bit like a spoiled brat LOL

I do realise you have to pay to get stuff shipped but paying a third party an extortionate amount with no alternative really is not "free market competition "

Just send me ALL your trains America and I will be happy !

@Fatman  I totally agree with you, the GSp is the worst thing that have happened. Totally crazy prices for shipping and custom, they are out of reality. The best good thing with it is that I do not buy anything more in USA except to reputable sellers I am used to deal with and they ship directly.  It is really different from fifteen years ago when it was less expensive and there where some really good pieces, today there is mainly low quality things.  It seems that there is still some nice things to find in Australia...  Very best, Daniel

Fatman :  You are more than welcome for the information.  I agree with all of you, the shipping cost is often absurd.  I like Marx and the shipping is often more than the item or it raises the item to price that it is not worth.  What I often find disturbing is that the shipping costs vary widely by seller and item.  I have seen pieces go for "FREE" shipping to 100-125% of asking price.  Makes no sense.  Oh well, I can just stop spending money on trains I suppose...LOL!!

Regards

Don