what is a BCR?

The BCR is a capacitor that after 1 minute has sufficient charge to permit operation of Proto2 engines without a battery. As batteries age they may not retain sufficient power to write the shutdown information back to the engine memory. The capicitor elimates that issue.

The BCR is a reasonable replacement, but Capacitors also lose function as they age. Hopefully the BCR is oversized enough to compensate for this fact.
I just buy the replacement battery from my Dealer, they are not expensive.
And you only need one per engine every 5 to 10 years anyway.

I like them. Once installed you don't have to mess with charging them when sitting idle in summer months. And you won't get corrosion on the 9 volt battery clips. Once corroded, it's hard to get them to make contact again, even after cleaning. Plus some diesel engines are just a pain to change out a battery when necessary.

The battery has been an issue for years and for some and still is. Finally MTH has changed all that with PS3.

Gentlemen,
There are different views on BCR's however I use them in just about all my P2 engines.
Great stuff when storing your engines, and after not using your engine for 2 or more years,
they work just fantastic.
PCRR/Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Russell:
The BCR is a reasonable replacement, but Capacitors also lose function as they age. Hopefully the BCR is oversized enough to compensate for this fact.
I just buy the replacement battery from my Dealer, they are not expensive.
And you only need one per engine every 5 to 10 years anyway.

The modern super capacitors used are good for 100,000 cycles or more. Here is a link to the BCR maker. I have over 100 of them in use in my engines.

http://www.jandwelectronics.com/

Dale H

When I do the "info" check on a PS2 loco, I (almost) always see "Battery--OK" with a good battery installed.

I understand that this is an indication of the charging circuit and not the battery.

 

What indication do you get with a BCR/BCR2 installed?

Mike,

FYI, the so-called "battery status" is actually all about the charging circuit, not the battery.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click here to go to the web page for the book.

Or click here to see my ad on the FOR SALE Forum.

Be aware that the BCR may not fit all battery compartments.

I attempted to replace a dead MTH battery with the BCR in the tender of a MTH PS2 30-1312-1 Great Northern 0-8-0. The BCR would not fit in the battery compartment in the tender. The BCR is a bit too tall and the bottom edges of the BCR are too square versus the MTH 50-1008 Proto-Sound Ni-MH Battery. The BCR would not fit all the way down into the battery compartment in the tender and thus the top edge of the BCR would not clip under the metal lip on the top edge of the battery compartment in the tender.

I provided this feedback to jandwelectronics@yahoo.com. I resorted back to using a new MTH 50-1008 battery since the BCR would not fit in the battery compartment in the tender.

Ken, a BCR ( 9 volt ) is used in 8.4 volt engines and a BCR2 ( 3 volt ) is used in 2.4 volt engines, check the front page of each engines manual or once you remove the engine cab check the battery already installed from the factory.

I've replced all of my batteries with BCR's, all work perfectly, I would never go back to batteries again.

Jack

What BCR would be used for a Proto2 diesel conversion kit purchased in 1999?

Kerrigan,

   That should be the 9 Volt type BCR, I do believe.

PCRR/Dave

Kerrigan,

What BCR would be used for a Proto2 diesel conversion kit purchased in 1999?

All of the kits use a 2.4 (3) volt battery, regardless of the age of the engine being converted. I believe that the designation for the equivalent BCR is the "BCR2".

Thanks Barry!  Is it safe to assume the sound/control software loads now available on the Protosound2 website will work with this older kit?

Somebody has to ask ...

 

Is there any disadvantage to installing a BCR or a BCR2?

Kerrigan,

Is it safe to assume the sound/control software loads now available on the Protosound2 website will work with this older kit?

That depends on how old is the kit. If it has a 2 Meg RAM chip, every upgrade sound file should work. If it has a 1 Meg chip, only one meg sound files will work.

Is there any disadvantage to installing a BCR or a BCR2?

I had one engine that, if I didn't wait long enough for the BCR to charge before pressing Start Up, typically less than 30 seconds, the engine was weird when started up.

 

Other downsides are, of course, the price of the BCR and also that some of the 2.4 volt BCRs were seen by the DCS Loader Program as being of too low a charge to support a sound file transfer. However, that may have been corrected with later models of the BCR.. 

How does one tell looking at the upgrade kit, if it has a 1 Meg RAM or a 2 Meg RAM chip?

 

Also can't locate a "RUN/PROG" switch in the kit I have on hand, nor a reference to it in the pin-out diagram or instructions.  How do we program the upgrade without one?

 

 

Kerrigan,

How does one tell looking at the upgrade kit, if it has a 1 Meg RAM or a 2 Meg RAM chip?

If memory serves, the 2 Meg chips are marked either Edge or Sharp.I simply cannot recall which it is, however, it's one or the other. Otherwise, it's a 1 Meg chip.

Also can't locate a "RUN/PROG" switch in the kit I have on hand, nor a reference to it in the pin-out diagram or instructions.  How do we program the upgrade without one?

There isn't such a switch in the kit. That's for TMCC and Legacy. You "program" a PS2/PS3 engine by loading a sound file.

Barry,

  Thanks for the correction I appreciate it, because of what they have done with the conversion kits all being the 3 Volt engineering, there will be no original type coversion

engineering for the older engines, this seems foolish to me, but cost effective in the long run I guess.

PCRR/Dave

Aren't the Proto2 conversion kits all for older engines; newer engines are Proto2 out of the box?

I've a kit to convert a 1998 Proto engine to Proto2 ... are you're saying that it won't work?  Or just that if the kit has a 1meg chip the sound file won't work?

The kit was purchased 04/2009 and has the 2.4 volt battery pack in it.

 

 

Kerrigan,

Or just that if the kit has a 1meg chip the sound file won't work?

That's correct.

 

If the sound file that you select is a 2 Meg sound file and the 3 volt board has a 1 Meg chip, the Loader Program won't load it into the board.

I can not speak to all the programming issues.

 

Nicad batteries can leak suffer from memory effect and cell reversal. They have a shelf life and usage life. For engines under long term storage this could be a problem.

 

The BCR is a capacitor circuit. The 8.4 volt contains 3 super capacitors and are protected from over voltage with 3 zener diodes. These caps are good for 100000 cycles or more and should never need replacement. They can not leak (at least not acid but if defective they could explode). They do not suffer from cell reversal or memory effect.Long term storage is a non issue. There is no real definitive test of the battery condition in the loco.A comprehensive test would involve removal ,charging and testing it under a load.

 

Their downside of the BCR  is initial cost and that they need to be charged on the track about a minute before the engine can be used. However batteries take a lot longer to charge if they are run down and charging a bad battery could stress the charging system in older board.. The new MTH PS3 boards do not use batteries so I guess they overcame the issues Barry raises with the older boards. Batteries used for memory backup was largely phased out years ago in favor of super capacitors which were developed largely for that purpose. In that sense installing a battery is antiquated.

 

Dale H

Is there a timeline of when MTH switched from the 1meg chip to the 2meg chip?

My kit was shipped to me 04/09 and has the 3 volt battery set.

 

Is there a BCR for a 5 volt system?

Yes.

There is always a lot of confusion that occurs when this topic comes up.  There are only 2 battery voltages used by MTH.

 

PS-1 and PS-2 5V board used a 8.4Volt battery.  This is BCR.  Looks like a standard 9V battery.

 

PS-2 3V uses a 2.4V battery.  This comes in a combined AA or AAA package.  This is BCR2.

 

The 5V terminolgy applies to the processor on the early single piece PS-2 board.  It ran off 5VDC.

 

The PS-2 3V applies to the new processor on the new 2 piece PS-2 boards that runs off 3.3Vs.

 

The NiCad memory effect is a Red Herring in my opinion.  Plus all the new batteries are NiHydrates.

 

My own opinion is that replacing the 8.4V battery with a BCR for very early PS-1 before 1997 is wise.  These early models were suceptible to faults with weak or dead batteries.  It is also convienent for engines where battery access is difficult, or there are no charge ports.

 

For PS-2 5V I also can see there use as I believe a fully dead battery can be detrimental to the PS-2 5V board (obsolete) over time.  No facts just hunch from what I have seen.

 

For the PS-2 3V system I think they are not worth the cost other than for specific upgrades where battery location is problematic.  The 2.4V battery last about 7 years, the 3V system is more robust.

 

Here is what concerns me about the BCR,  while the BCR charges, it charges from a dead state.  This is a heavy load on the charge circuit intially.  This repeat charge cycle happens everytime you use the engine after a few day layoff.

 

Listen to a PS-2 engine while starting up and charging a BCR.  The sound volume drops off and you don't have conventional control until about the 15- 30sec point when the BCR attains a certain level and the Power Supply now can provide sufficent power to the processors and audio amp.

 

With a battery you don't have this 15-30sec charging point.  The battery is already at the basic level and the power supply only has to do a trickle charge to the battery.  Basically instant response from our engine with a battery

 

Whether there is any long term issues here or not I don't know.  So it becomes personal choice.

 

If you are new to BCR use and operate PS-1, you do NEED to LEARN MUSCLE MEMORY and wait the 45sec for the BCR to charge.  If you press the direction button right after the engine starts up, but the BCR is around 5-6volts you can replicate the weak/dead battery syndrome and cause a software conflict on those PS-1 engine that are suceptible.  So just be careful until you get use to the BCR.

 

G

 

 

 

Thank you Gunrunnerjohn and GGG.

 

I think the area that  is confusing me is the attachment point. I realize the 9 volt has the cap type attachment. The 5 volt and the 3 volt have the little plastic receptor with the two pin holes ( sorry do not know the electrical name).

 

So to put a BCR onto a 5 volt system, you must use the cap style but have to cut off the plastic thing and splice the wires????

Don,

So to put a BCR onto a 5 volt system, you must use the cap style but have to cut off the plastic thing and splice the wires????

No, not at all.

 

The BCR for a 5 volt PS2 engine with an 8.4 (9) volt battery looks exactly like a 9 volt battery and connects in excactly the same way.

 

The BCR (actually BCR2) for a 3 volt PS2 engine with a 2.4 (3) volt battery looks just like the battery itself, with the same connector, and connects in exactly the same way.

 

No tools are required in either case, except a screwdriver to open up the engine.

Don, Which 2 pin do you mean?  The BCR are meant to connect to the original Battery Harness.  So as Barry stated, they match right up.  Pull battery out and plug BCR in.

 

Now if you are talking about connecting it directly to the board, then yes, that is a specific 2 pin connector and you would need to modify a harness to do that.  My recommendation is to just place the BCR in the location of the battery as a direct replacement.  G

Thank you Barry and GGG.

Don,

   This is very simple stuff just replace the battery with the BCR,

make sure you have the correct BCR for your specific engine, remember after replacement you must charge the BCR each time you use your engine, for about a minute, by letting your enigne sit on the tracks with voltage applied. After a minute then cycle the engine into forward or reverse.   I have BCR's in most all my engines and have never had to replace any of them and some are quite old.

PCRR/Dave

So after you charge up a BCR and run your train and then park it, how long does the BCR hold a charge? A minute, an hour, a day, a week? Or do the engine shutdown sounds immediately deplete it? I have just a couple PS1 items.

Ace,

   I never timed it, however as long as the train is on the tracks and the power running to it, the BCR operates.  If I power down the engine, then repower it after a couple minutes, I wait about 10 sec before I FWD the engine. 

PCRR/Dave

Ace:

 

The manufacturer claims the BCR will hold a charge for (as I recollect) up to an hour and half.  I have opted not to test the theory, however.  Like Dave, if I shut off power to the track, I don't attempt to move the engine until I have allowed the BCR to recharge for about 20-30 seconds.

 

Curt