What is the longest you waited for a catalog pre-order?

That's getting bad when you wait so long your credit card expires. I have seen many items on vendor websites that are still listed as pre-order from 2017-18-19 catalogs. I've looked for an official list of "decided to never make" items, but have not found one.

Well....Not sure this is exactly the same, what with Atlas' production problems.....but I ordered a GP7 back in April 2014....it's still on Atlas' production schedule, showing 3rd quarter this year. And later, I added another GP7 to that order. How many folks are waiting for those - or have given up and canceled?

David

I can't beat the GP7 wait time.

I think my top active one right now is the Lionel Milk Cars that got held up due to tooling issues and changing the country of manufacture.  According to my records, those were 2015 Volume 2. But I think they are now scheduled for roughly the end of this year. 

So a little over 5 years for those, but that's an extreme example, and I give Lionel credit for keeping up the commitment to making them.  They could have just abandoned the line of cars once the original manufacturer was no longer viable (or whatever the full story was, I don't know the details, just that it changed).

@GVDobler posted:

That's getting bad when you wait so long your credit card expires. I have seen many items on vendor websites that are still listed as pre-order from 2017-18-19 catalogs. I've looked for an official list of "decided to never make" items, but have not found one.

Several price guides (you know, those things everyone now says are useless due to eBay) used to cover that relatively well, but that was when there was a whole lot less product offered, and there were also fewer cancelled items. 

If you look in a guide, you may well still see it for things from the 80's into 90's (maybe even a few more recent), "NM" = Never Made, and then there are of course no prices (aside from originally intended MSRP, perhaps) since there can't be any reported sales for things not made.

Unfortunately it's impossible to run an eBay query that will tell you the thing you are looking for doesn't exist....

-Dave

I was referring to BTO items over the last 4-5 years, not stuff cataloged 30 years ago.

When did the BTO idea start?

Two years

@GVDobler posted:

I was referring to BTO items over the last 4-5 years, not stuff cataloged 30 years ago.

When did the BTO idea start?

The actual acronym and phrase was probably in the last 10 years or so.  Looking through the old catalogs should show the first time they used it.

The concept (or similar) has been around forever.

I remember when certain popular items were "allocated".  This meant your dealer was only going to be offered some predetermined number from the importer/manufacturer, no matter how many customers may have interest.  Back then I think there was more risk taken by the importer/manufacturer to decide to make something, but they hedged on quantities for things they didn't want to risk a huge glut of them if the orders were not what they predicted.

Slightly different flavor.  Same idea, of not making a boat load and hoping they sell.  BTO just takes it the final step and lets the actual customer orders define the production number (assuming there is enough interest and the item doesn't get cancelled for some other reason.)

-Dave

@Dave45681 posted:

I remember when certain popular items were "allocated".  This meant your dealer was only going to be offered some predetermined number from the importer/manufacturer, no matter how many customers may have interest.  Back then I think there was more risk taken by the importer to decide to make something, but they hedged on quantities for things they didn't want to risk a huge glut of them if the orders were not what they predicted.

It's not just imported items.  There were items being allocated when Lionel was being made in Michigan.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

It's not just imported items.  There were items being allocated when Lionel was being made in Michigan.

Rusty

Forgot to add the "/manufacturer" to my second mention.  Fixed! 

Absolutely true, that was when a lot (or maybe even all) items were made stateside.

-Dave

I am in at five years since I placed my Third Rail order for Amfleet cars.  Scott says they are going into production this fall!

Okay, I see the Signature 2014 catalog appears to be the first BTO offerings. So, it would be nice to be able to look up whether a BTO item was produced or not.

Allocating is just saying we are going to make 10,000 widgets and we will allocate to dealers so they can all get some based on their overall sales ranking. 

I am still waiting for the scrapple road signs.

There was a period that MTH suspended Steamers. I had a N&W Consolidation on order for 2+ years, There's more to the story, but I'll just leave it at that.

I'm still waiting on the LionScale Western Maryland woodchip hoppers.

Over 2 years, the original Phantom set.

I don't think I've pre-ordered anything for at least 15 years. Got tired of seeing the same item at a lower price at train shows 6 months later. Also, tastes change, I've sold most of my "Modern Era " stuff for Post or Pre War.

I have several pre-orders from a few years ago I’m waiting for.  I think maybe three years was the longest wait for the Centipedes.

However, that is the best estimate I can give you since I don’t track the times.  I have plenty to run so it really doesn’t matter to me when it gets here.  I will say I would like to get what I ordered before I die.

I think the manufacturers (importers?), small businesses all, are doing their best to get their products to us as fast as possible.

@GVDobler posted:

That's getting bad when you wait so long your credit card expires. I have seen many items on vendor websites that are still listed as pre-order from 2017-18-19 catalogs. I've looked for an official list of "decided to never make" items, but have not found one.

Where can we find the "decided to never make" list?

I admire the patience of the above forumites.  

I haven't ordered anything since the 18005 hudson in 1990 I think.  I dont think I would contemplate pre-ordering anything now. especially with those lead times.  I may not even be here that long.

The last 30 years I have just waited to see the item in person at a show.

Somewhere between one and two years for an item being produced by a major manufacturer.  At that point I cancelled the order because I had to take down my layout and had no idea when I would be able to get back into running trains.  There was at least one limited run item by a minor company that took about three years, but there's a story there.

Eight years.  Ordered two Atlas diesel engines in 2010.  I guess Atlas had some "issues" at the time.  But I finally received them in 2018.  They turned out to be good engines.

Two plus years for the Sunset Models PRR J1 class steam engine.

The Lionel B&O milk car for me, it was going to be produced in Asia, Eastern Europe, but Lionel is saying at the end of this year, we shall see.

It has been a few years for sure.

I've only pre-ordered items from MTH and my longest wait was less than a year.  I've also only had 1 item that I pre-ordered cancelled (A PRR rail-whale tank car).  Guess I've been lucky.

Maybe it was close to 2 years for the MTH water tower with sound??? Worth the wait, couldn't be happier with it.

@Roger L. posted:

Eight years.  Ordered two Atlas diesel engines in 2010.  I guess Atlas had some "issues" at the time.  But I finally received them in 2018.  They turned out to be good engines.

Roger,

How did you even remember that you ordered them 8 years earlier?

And here I sit and wonder about my MTH pre-order that was scheduled for June 2020, emphasis was, hope it wasn't a misprint and should have been June 2021. 

@Lionelski posted:

Roger,

How did you even remember that you ordered them 8 years earlier?

You mean everyone doesn't keep a spreadsheet to keep track of their orders?  

The computer doesn't forget. (well, unless hard drive or memory card failure, etc.... but you get the idea)

But I think Roger is going to be the "winner" of this thread. 

8 years is tough to beat, at least for something that is actually made to the same original order (I would suggest it doesn't count if an item gets cancelled and then offered again later, so no 213 Lift Bridges in this story ).

-Dave

About waiting for a train ...

Most hobbyists know and accept a waiting period for a train they "have to have" when the alternative is going without a treasured piece. I waited 2+ years for a Rock Island TA diesel train set by Sunset 3rd Rail. Not very long when compared to other contributors to this thread.

I ordered it because I'm a RI collector/operator. Also, I rode that actual train as the PEORIA ROCKET when I was a teenager living in Peoria IL, so the purchase was a "memory enhancer."  It was worth the wait! The train set is now a "shelf queen" resting on a wall display in my train room. The photo shows it on the third row up from the bottom shelf.

My L-shaped layout at home is space-limited in an L-shaped train room. Its tubular rail curves and switches are O42. The trains on display require larger radius curvatures, so I'll never be able to run them at home. I ordered the TA diesel train set thorough Arkansas Traveler Hobbies, a train dealer in my region. He provided his in-store layout for an inaugural test run. Photo attached.

Mike Mottler   LCCA 12394

I waited 4 years to get my DDA40X engines from MTH.  The dealer I ordered them from quit business before they came, so I took over their account to keep my order alive.....

I placed an order for 3 Atlas Erie Lackawanna GP7s with Bob Thatcher of AM Hobbies in February 2011.  Still waiting.  It’s comical at this point.  The order has passed to a 3rd hobby shop.

George

@WakeForestRR posted:

I placed an order for 3 Atlas Erie Lackawanna GP7s with Bob Thatcher of AM Hobbies in February 2011.  Still waiting.  It’s comical at this point.  The order has passed to a 3rd hobby shop.

George

Did you know you can go to the Atlas website and find out the status of most of their items? This page  - if you have their SKU: https://shop.atlasrr.com/t-ordership.aspx

@WakeForestRR posted:

I placed an order for 3 Atlas Erie Lackawanna GP7s with Bob Thatcher of AM Hobbies in February 2011.  Still waiting.  It’s comical at this point.  The order has passed to a 3rd hobby shop.

George

I would have moved on a long time ago George. Do you still even want this engine? GP7's of every manufacture and era are readily available

George - Funny, but NOT!

That's another reason I don't buy Atlas O powered engines. When AM closed, the model train market went with it.

Can't believe they are still in the O business? Over priced as well.

The market is flooded with GP-7/9's. 

Hmm...good question.

Guess I've been lucky because I've never waited as long as some mentioned above. I'd say two years,  max, although it may not have been quite that long. 

Remember the Automatic Smoke Fluid Loader?  2011 catalog. Delivered 2016 by which time the price was higher but Lionel honored the 2011 price for those who ordered them in 2011.

Two and a half years waiting for Lionel EJ&E 6 car set from Mario's Trains. Paid for in February 2018.

8 years for an Atlas engine! Roger, you are a patient man. I've had an Atlas RSD 7/15 on order for 5 years from Mr. Muffin. I wonder if he still has the order. I see the only engines on the Atlas production schedule are the RSD7/15 and the GP-7's. I suspect that may be the end of Atlas engine production if and when they ever get here.

Ken

I pre-ordered a Altas O Trainman RS-11 custom run Maine Central paint scheme from Norms O scale in 2017.   I'm hoping these get made, but I think the reality is very unlikely.

@kanawha posted:

8 years for an Atlas engine! Roger, you are a patient man. I've had an Atlas RSD 7/15 on order for 5 years from Mr. Muffin. I wonder if he still has the order. I see the only engines on the Atlas production schedule are the RSD7/15 and the GP-7's. I suspect that may be the end of Atlas engine production if and when they ever get here.

Ken

I definitely would NOT trust Mr. Muffins trains anymore!

Previously I had an item on "pre-order" status and when I finally contacted him about the order status he said he had no idea why the order was not fulfilled.

Looks like he's done it again. I currently have on order an Atlas RR car. Was checking on my pre-orders/back orders. This item was supposedly released in 1st Qtr 2020. Checked his website and it's still listed as "pre-order". I checked the Atlas RR production scheduled (yes, I know what "schedules" are - estimates). Atlas RR says it is "sold out"! I just sent him an e-mail. My guess is it will be the same answer - not sure why the order was not fulfilled.

Time to permanently remove Mr. Muffins trains from my selection of online dealers. I know, I'm only one person, but it they have treated me twice, wonder how many others they have done this too. Anyway, his prices are not the best deals. Several other of my choice of online dealers can easily beat him.

Goodby Mr. Muffins and good ridance! Never again!

@jlm posted:

Remember the Automatic Smoke Fluid Loader?  2011 catalog. Delivered 2016 by which time the price was higher but Lionel honored the 2011 price for those who ordered them in 2011.

And then they leaked right out of the box after waiting all that time(!).  Darn factory changed the design without approval.

I returned mine for credit for my pre-order price when that became known (I had not tried to set it up yet, so I was not one who found smoke fluid all over the place).

When they later blew them out, I picked one up to mess around with.  But that price was worthy of having something to mess around with someday(have not done anything with it yet), the original order price was not, IMO.

-Dave