Which is the Lionel ZW to get?

Well, the newer versions can support up to 4 180-watt bricks for a total of 720 watts, and the ZW-L is 620 watts in one unit. Those are your high- power options, though they're obviously more expensive and there have been some reliability issues with the "new" ZW's. For reliability, simplicity and ease of repair, a postwar 275-watt ZW is the way to go. The rated wattage on this unit is input wattage; you'll get about 180-200 watts output. Postwar ZW's are less expensive as well, rebuilt ones can be had for under $200.

Postwar 275 watt ZW. As Mike Lavender points out above, simplicity, reliability and cost. In general, total usable output wattage was historically considered to be about 75% of the printed rating, in this case 275 watts x .75 = 206 watts. That's the total output; there are 4 control handles on a postwar ZW, so divide the 206 watts by 4 to obtain the usable output wattage from each control handle if you're using all of them (it's helpful to know the wattage draw of accessories, too). If the transformer is outputting near or at its maximum, it will definitely get quite warm after 30 minutes of use. Many years ago I mitigated this condition by replacing the carbon rollers with gold rollers (which were made by a dentist in Wisconsin). Gold has extremely low electrical resistance so less heat builds up from the flow of electricity from the copper transformer coil windings through the carbon roller to the roller pin and thence to the copper control arm. Gold is also harder than carbon rollers and will outlast them by pretty close to a human lifetime. The caveat here is that the price of gold has gone up so much that replacing the carbon rollers certainly isn't cost effective any longer. A correction for Mike Lavender (above post), it's not input wattage; the ZW will only draw what's needed for output. If you have a single motored postwar engine (like a 726 Berkshire), it'll draw about 30-35 watts (2 motored engines draw about 60 watts), then 2-bulb passenger cars with incandescent lamps, say 4 cars, at 4 watts per bulb = 32 watts. 35 + 32 = 67 watts. Add in some rolling resistance, and the draw from the ZW will likely be around 75-80 watts. Then add on a couple of accessories or another train using another control handle, or both, and the usable output of the transformer will approach maximum.  Phil

I would say to stick with the tried and true post war ZW.

My post war ZW with 275 watts has been working since the 1960's with only some occasion cleaning of the roller area and one roller going bad. I never had a problem with power output being low even when running four trains at once, and have not noticed it getting very warm.

 

The new ZW's since 1995 have some design flaws to say the least! Handles may fall off, or cross-over voltage from one terminal to another, this occurs with the add-on power brick addition of the ZW. Classic Toy Trains had many a post in the past about faulty ZW's from the current production.

 

The ZW-L is rather new and has not been reported on, so I would wait to see the reports before buying a new ZW.

 

If you want just power go with the post war Z transformer, has 250 watts input and four train control, just no whistle or direction buttons.

 

Lee F.

Great, this is just the type of feedback I was looking for.  Are all postwar-era ZWs the same?  Should I update the power cord or modernize anything?

You can see if the power cord is frayed or not, if not don't do anything.

Probally want to add some better circuit protection as the ZW has one breaker for the common or return side.

Use 8 to 10 amp circuit breakers on each output terminal, A thru D.

 

Lee F.

What size is the layout, how many trains do you plan on running at one time, are you running lighted passenger cars, and what kind of engines? These are all major considerations if you're looking for max power.

Doesn't matter if it says 250 or 275 watt's. They are the same. A rebuilt one is the safest way to go. However there are thousands of them out there all still working today. First safety tip is check the AC cord for damage.

Sounds good.  I am considering it for running 2-3 trains max, plus some accessories on a small-medium sized layout.  I am also in the process on converting all of my lighting to LED to reduce current draw.

Daniel, go to the lionel customer service youtube channel and look for a segment called choped verses smooth sign wave transformers.Mike gives a great explanation of postwar zw's and newer zw's and how they affect todays modern trains. This maybe helpful in letting you know how a postwar zw and a newer zw can effect how the newer command engines perform. I am going to get a new ZW-L after they have been on the market for a while and all the first batch bugs have been ironed out. A good transformer is the key to any size layout. Big ones such as a zw are a lot of money so I want to make sure I get that choice right.As everyone has stated the postwar zw is good. But watch the video from mike regan then make your choice. if you only run postwar trains the postwar zw is ok. But if you run legacy or tmcc engines you might think about waiting on the new Zw-l to ship. Then again thier are the 180 watt bricks and a tpc. The video will explain a lot trust me on this.

I bought my first postwar ZW at York this year and I love it. The classic look, the feel and the solid construction are hard to resist. A rebuilt unit by an experienced professional is the way to go. I usually avoid plugging in any type of electrical device with original 1950's insulation.

Call us we have them in stock. The postwar we rebuild them and resell them We put a  2 year warnty on them. that is some thing you won't get anty were eles.

 We do have one for sale that has the 180 bricks if you want to go that way.

 Hennings Trains Lansdale P.A. phone# (215) 362-2442.

We are the one that make a lot of the zw parts.and outher transformer parts.

 

I don't buy all the hype about the chopped vs. pure sine wave.  My legacy stuff runs like a top on the PowerHouse 180 bricks, and they're a plain transformer with a pure sine wave.  The only difference I see is you got a bit more smoke with the chopped sine wave, but I get all the smoke I can handle from the Legacy and MTH stuff, no extra boost needed.

I run all conventional and mostly MPC/LTI stuff, and I'm not crazy about how it runs on a chopped wave. Like John, the only positive thing I noticed was more smoke.

Daniel,

Have you thought about a MTH Z-4000?

If you have (or plan on having) a Legacy or TMCC set-up the ZW with the 180w bricks is nice. I have been using mine in command mode running conventional equipment. Lionel customer service (LIONELCS2011) has a 35 minute Youtube video that shows what the ZW-C can actually do. Search "ZW-C" 

Daniel, You've gotten plenty of very good advice so far, so if this is helpful additionally, here's is a view of my set-up that has been powering the whole layout - 4 old ZW's and one newer type - since 1995. None of them have ever been serviced or repaired. I just found them randomly at shows and at my LHS. Plus, I bought an extra ZW I keep stored under the layout, just in case.

 

The five of them run ten trains, only two trains per ZW, using just the larger handles, except that one of the ZW's additionally powers a separate loop for a trolley, using a smaller arm; another one powers a Rotary Beacon on a smaller handle, too. 

 

One thing I did discover, though, even with spreading my trains out among the five ZW's, which is that whenever I have tried to run two passenger trains (scale cars and scale steamers) in-tandem on the same track, the power would sputter and very quickly blink out. I soon learned that all those lights were too much for one handle.

 

If it's further helpful for you to know, I've run trains by Lionel (my preferred manf. due to the convenience of TMCC and cruise-control), Weaver; MTH; Williams; K-Line; Atlas; 3rdRail with those five ZW's. However, nowadays, I run strictly the TMCC Lionel engines, esp. since visits to our layout by guests this Holiday season will be aplenty. The TMCC is best for my needs, as is the obvious ZW commitment I have made, all of which affords me as relatively trouble-free a Holiday season as I can get with the house full of guests.

Frank M.

Daniel, I didn't see if you mentioned what trains your planning on operating. Older Postwar engines? If so, Postwar ZW is the way to go, especially with the big drop in prices lately, I recently saw several boxed ones at a TCA meet in the $175 range. 

If your planning on operating any modern engines with newer electronics, you might want to consider the MTH 4000, you'll need it's super fast acting circuit breakers to protect the electronics in the modern engines. The older Postwar ZW's lack the appropriate protection for the electronics of today.

Good Luck.

You can install fast acting automotive fuses in the transformer output lines A, B, C, D; not on the U or common side. Scott's Odds 'n' Ends sells a fast acting, resettable 4-circuit breaker; available in a couple or three different amperage ratings.  Check their website. I use a 10 amp between the ZW and the track.  Phil

I'll second Bluegill's comment about the price drop on ZW's.  Definitely the most affordable "bigger power" out there, and with fast-acting breakers or fuses as mtnhi7 suggested, safe for newer engines.

As an alternative choice, the proven UL rated MTH Z-4000 is a very reliable and powerful transformer with nano-second circuit breakers, micro-processor control circuitry, fan cooling, and easy to read digital volt and amp meters.

Thank you for the great information, everyone!  Yes, this would be for older, conventional locomotives.

That's a good choice if he sticks with only 2 trains, but if he adds the third train and wants independent control he'd need a second Z-4000 or some other transformer to pick up the third.  (Since TMCC/Legacy or DCS has not been mentioned, I'm assuming Daniel wants conventional handle control [edit: I see now Daniel has posted that he is looking for PW operation, so this holds true]). 

 

As mentioned in previous posts, the 3rd and 4th handles on the ZW don't come with Whistle/bell control, but they are available to control a train, and if you really need it, you can add whistle/bell buttons to get that for handles B and C.

 

Another thought, while it's possibly overkill for just running conventional, if you were to run a modern ZW with a TMCC (or Legacy) base and remote(just to gain control of the output voltage remotely, which works for conventional locomotives), you then can get the whistle/horn from those B & C outputs as well (but this is only an attractive option if you like the remote idea, a TMCC base/remote set would cost you more (much more for Legacy)than some 5906 sound activation buttons). 

 

-Dave

The postwar ZW is a great transformer, as mentioned above.

 

You can somewhat update (rebuild) it with a new cord, carbon rollers, new updated whistle rectifiers (not the original disc style ones) and a new 10 amp automotive circuit breaker.

As mentioned above,  add the separate circuit breakers to each of the 4 outputs, also!

These are the most common parts that go bad. Once replaced, you will have a transformer that may last another 50 years!

 

Like anything else, if you are not comfortable working on a transformer, take it to someone who does and knows what they are doing!

 

 

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but it seems many people who have posted here would know this answer. Why hasn't anyone recommended the postwar KW? Using Mtnhi7's example, with a ZW there are 206 watts to be used by four handles. With the KW, isn't it 142 watts for two handles? Aren't you getting more watts per handle with the KW? I'm guessing not, since nobody suggested it here, but I don't get why. If nothing else, if a single KW can be had for less than half the cost of a ZW, wouldn't two KW's be better for the original posters question?

 

Sam

@ Daniel   if you want to rebuild it your self, all parts are avail. from  Davis Lions  at :  lioneltransformer.com..  OR  i have 4 zw-275w left. all have new= cord,bulbs,breaker,rollers&pins, diodes,[ terminals&emblems [where needed] ,orig style decals over common,a-d & u's. cases  polished, base plates sandblasted,epoxy primed and painted. tested,21.5 volts no-load,  look and perform like new. i would sell to a forum member for $ 200.00 .. i pay shipping.  pics avail. if interested,  e/mail in profile.

I just picked up a ZW yesterday to power my MPC era passanger trains on the Christmas layout. I haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet but I'm expecting to have to make the usual upgrades I've made in the past when buying a used postwar transformer (KW & 1099) I've gotten kind of used to downloading the service manuas from Olsen's Toy Train parts, but their website has become more inconsistant then usual. I hate to bother Jeff Kane at Train Tender for something I may not need. So if anyone one has or knows where to find a pdf file for the service manual for a ZW-174, 275watt transformer it sure would be apreciated.

I have 1 page of a  pdf .I thought there was 2. Maybe this will help.

 I agree with Sam, two KW,s can be had for a lot less than one ZW. Two KW,s give you whistle and direction control on all 4 outputs. If(big if) one goes bad you can still run some trains. And that is what it is all about.

Is it ok to use a MTH Z-1000 for post war trains (conventional)?

The KW is fine, but the ZW is the gold standard. I never could get used to the opposing handles on the KW (one goes "up" to increase voltage, the other goes "down"). I use KWs for accesory power and run my trains with ZWs. You really can not beat the ZW for reliability, utility and ease of use.

Yes of course.

Daniel, you had asked about parts. Try Harry Lutz. Phone 610-442-9620. Harryflutz@aol.com. Harry sells refurbished transformes, parts and also fixes them. They come with a warranty also. I have bought many from him. Always worked great and very fair pricing. 

On the pw 275 ZW[type R] all four throttles are connected to the same core--the transformer's low voltage secondary. The total 170-180 watt output capacity of the ZW is available to any one throttle or, spread out over all throttles-----two or four depending what you are using to operate.

 

The railpower load on Throttle "A's" power district" will determine its wattage demand and likwise for the load on throttle "D's" district. However they are drinking from the same bucket not separate ones. I expect the KW is the same--a single core. 

 

 

 

Dewey, you are correct, the KW has a single core and the two wipers are in parallel across it.

 

I bought an MRC PurePower 270 for $125 recently, it's a really nice transformer.  Very "ZW-Like" in the configuration of the two handles, just doesn't have the other two variable outputs, just one fixed 14V output for accessories.  It does have a modern whistle/bell capability, and actually outputs a true 270 watts.  Of course, the dual sets of meters are useful as well.  These transformers actually have 7A breakers on each handle, so you can't draw more than about 130 watts from either side, that really isn't an issue for me.  They are a real sine wave transformer, having a large toroid transformer with some really robust carbon wipers for pickups.

 

If you get a good deal on one of these, they're a worthwhile alternative to the ZW for most users.

 

 

Daniel - I have 2 post war ZW I'd like to sell if you're interested - I've been using them on my layout for the past 22 years.  They are still hooked up to the layout but I'm now looking for Z4000's.  If you're interested let me know.