Which RS-3 is Going the Right Direction?

Don't about all roads but on the GM&O the long hood was considered the front. In most cases they ran them that way too.

Malcolm

Depends on the prototype road's way of using the locomotive.  Some roads may have preferred long hood forward; others might have normally operated cab forward.  I don't know which roads ran which way.

The Corgis are going the right way. 

Ha. The Corgi's are ALWAYS going the right way -- according to the Corgi's. They gave me well trained!

On the side sill of the frame there will be a small letter F indicating the front of the engines.  Initially most of the road switchers were configured to run long hoods forward to protect the train crew.  Some roads preferred the increased visibility offered to the crew with the short hood forward.  Most of these road switchers had dual controls and could operate in either direction.  The  F was retained so maintenance crews would have a reference point for work orders.

Pinkepank's Diesel Spotter's Guide says "Except for a few units built in 1955 and 1956, most RS2s and RS3s were built to operate long end first."

Lew Schneider

Chuck and Lew thanks for the feedback. I did, in fact notice the very small "F" on the front of the MTH engine frame and was wondering if that was "Front". Will also check the WBB engine. Interesting that Bachman chose cab forward. Personally I love the RS-3 design so it looks great going either direction.

My Corgi Approves of Lionel Trains.

In the early days of Road Switchers, many roads ran theirs long-hood-forward, sometimes

at the request of the operating unions, which often saw the long hood as a safety feature

for the crews in case of a collision. The New York Central, for example, ran their

early EMP GP7's (9's?) long-hood-forward in typical usage. 

Now, whether a model manufacturer follows this practice regarding the actual RR/loco

type policy is often problematic. Williams typically concerns itself not at all with such

things, while MTH has often been pretty careful about such things. Atlas too;

Lionel less so, I think. I run mostly steam; the "front" is seldom in question.

FYI: SP some crews balked at operating the early cab-forward articulateds, as they

felt that sitting out there in front with no long boiler to protect them was too

dangerous. A valid point, within limits. 

The Pennsylvania RR ran a lot of diesels with the long hood forward, claimed it was for safety reasons. The first diesel unit would be long hood forward and the second or third didn't matter about which way the hood was.

FYI, about Bachmann Williams engines; they do not get that much right at times, especially the Norfolk Southern Heritage diesel units. Trying to sell an SD-90 as the SD-70ACe that N.S. had done in their heritage paint job. I emailed them about the SD-90 N.S. diesels and their reply is that these are toy trains and the three rail is not prototypical either.

Lee Fritz

I believe that the Williams RS-3 uses the K-Line tooling.  They may just be following the K-Line design.  Can anyone confirm which way the K-Line version went?

It does not surprise me that the Williams Heritage uses the SD-90 tooling, since it is not their usual practice to spend money on new tooling, if they can avoid it.

K-Line RS with TMCC starts long hood forward.

Gunny

Santa Fe marched to a different drum with its fleet of 60 or so Alco-GE RSD4 and RSD5 units built in 1951-'53.  These looked like RS3's on 6-axle trucks.  All of the Santa Fe units were set up to run short hood forward.  The Atlas Trainman Santa Fe Rsd4's are properly set up for short hood forward operation and the F is on the proper end of the frame.  However, the left and right side cab windows were not changed by Atlas.  Maybe the cab can be turned around.

Sure enough the WBB has FR and FL on the forward end of the frame so they seem to be pretty committed to that direction. From your posts and others it seems that the engines could do their jobs running either direction but the crew preference was long end forward. Personally I think they look a little better running that way. Makes you wonder why WBB decided to be different. Adding variety or flawed research.

The builders could/would configure units with either long or short hood as the "front".   The buying RR had to specify.   I think there were many both ways, especially with GP9s and GP7s, besides the RSs.    Dual controls were also an option, and some RRs bought them for specific applications and most did not to save money.   

The "F" on the frame does indicate front for reference.   I thought that this was done for crew safety when switching.    When a brakeman 50 cars back in the train, calls the engine on a radio and says "move forward 3 cars", but he and the engine man need to have same definition of "forward".   Otherwise someone on the ground could get hurt.

I think on the Pennsy, all high hood units were long hood forward except the RSD7/15s from Alco.

Run them any way you care to.  Great locomotives!

I know CN & CP  had the long nose as forward. Hogger sat facing the long nose.However if used on a branch line or the main line for that matter, you took them the way they came on the shop.   Most branch lines no longer had anyway of turning the engine. Turntables and Y's pretty much gone so you had to run them backwards one way.

I hated those stinky  old things.. smelled like I 'd been delivering fuel oil all day.Lots of rip snorting and  black smoke but would hardly pull them selves... great model though.

Anyone have any comments on the WBB RS-3's looking to buy the Seaboard versions

I am looking to buy the Seaboard and Penn ones!!

If you look at the prototype pictures there is a huge variation in the under the frame tankage, air reservoirs (torpedoes), main exhaust stacks were set up for air or water cooled and had different orientation, headlights, marker lights, all were varied.  These were used as true "road switchers" and many even did dual freight/passenger service.

WBB looks like a re-issue of the K-Line version.  Main issue to me is the hand rails and under the frame tankage.  RS-3 hand rails do not extend down the side of the locomotive frame.  I don't think that any of the RS series engines had stanchions attached to the side sills.  They were flat straps that were bolted to the top of the deck.  Tankage arrangement was very specific to what the road ordering it wanted.  Some had fuel only, some had fuel and water.  Some had two tanks arranged in "T", fuel crosswise to frame, water along the center line.  Lots of variations.

I'm really enjoying the posts by guys who actually operated these engines. Sounds like being an engine pilot was not always the glamorous rock star lifestyle that I imagined!

CNJ's RS3s were equipped with dual control stands to run either long or short hood forward.  Many of their other road diesels were as well all the way up to their last new purchase of the GP40P in 1969. 

Well, its YOUR railroad and you can do whatever you want.

Here's what I can tell you about mine:

1) Purchased from Marios Trains at a great price. I believe he has the Seaboard in stock.

2) Very nice quality and detail.

3) Very smooth runner, seems to have better low speed performance than other WBB diesels that I have. Still, I will probably change wiring from parallel to series.

4) It has a running engine sound that I would describe as "PS1" in quality. It's adjusted about right (not too loud or quiet) but according to the seller you have to open it up to adjust the sound level. Have not looked inside yet.

5) Only nit so far is roller spacing. They are further apart than my F3, F7 and BL2 and by unlucky coincidence seem to be able to find two spots on my layout where both pickups are on a dead spot. Will be looking to see if I can find shorter roller arms or some other adjustment. In general, all of my other WBBs cruise that layout without a problem.

It certainly impressed our product reviewer, George Brown, whose detailed review will appear in the April issue (available late Feb., I imagine).  The Seaboard version just happens to be the one he reviewed. 

Lionel's Santa Fe Scout set depicts it long hood forward on the box, but when I got my set, the crew were facing short hood forward, and "forward" on the lionchief remote is also short hood forward.

Thank you Scott and Allan !!! I plan to go ahead and order one from Mario ASAP !!

I appreciate the input!!!

This is my stocking stuffer to me on "Little " Christmas(Jan 6th")

I am sure Joey will think it's for him!!!!

The Weaver RS3s were built to scale,but were very fragile. Here is a shot of a customized

NH RS3 operating long hood forward on my layout.

Lew Schneider

My late model Weaver RS3.  Early models with the horizontal drive system had a much better detailed hand rail system. IMO.

As the EOB system was set, it runs long hood forward. It takes a bit to reverse start up for short hood forward, but it can be done. You also have to  change the forward/rear electro-couplers.  There is no cab detail or engineer/fireman figures.  

Nice looking layout Lew. Is that a WBB or MTH Florida East Coast BL2 in the background? I have the WBB and it's one of my favorites.

RS-2s and most RS-3s were built to run long hood forward.  In later years many railroads converted them to short hood forward. Some even chopped the short hood.

Hi Red,

Yes, it's the MTH BL-2.  I use it to pull a Casey's Caboose searchlight track cleaning car

and a Lionel Bay Window caboose.

If you want to see more photos of the layout check out www.lewrail.jalbum.net

Thanks

Lew Schneider

My RS-1 is pointed long hood forward