Which SP Diesels mostly pulled the PFE?

A gentleman by the name of Joseph A. Strapac authored several books on the SP diesels.  Try some searches using his name and you may find what you seek. 

OPeg posted:

Hi, I'm a newbie here, thanks for conversation!

I'm considering adding the new Lionel PFE set 6-84296 to my collection.  This would be my first diesel, other than the Christmas RS3 reindeer run.   I would buy the set and add the second SD40R they have listed separately to run.  

What kind of PFE refrigerators are you referring to? Are the ice reefers, or mechanical "modern era" reefers?

My question is, did SP use the SD40R on PFE?

Again, what type of PFE reefers are they? Without don a lot of research, I'm pretty sure that ice reefers of any kind were pretty well gone the era/time frame of SP "SD40R" diesel units. 

 I've been doing some research, but not finding a good resource.  I'd kinda like to use my UP#844, or even SP#4449, with the SD40Rs pushing, but I'm thinking that would be rare to see.

Yes, pure fantasy.

Ultimately not a huge deal, as I'm just running 'em for  me and the hubby, but wouldn't want a visitor to guffaw, you know?

Well, you never know. For what it's worth, I model in the very late 1940s thru the early/mid 1950s, when the SP still had a lot of steam power in service. I tend to use large SP steam locomotives to haul my 40 car PFE reefer train, but occasionally use a four unit set of MTH F3 A-B-B-A diesel in the famous SP "Black Widow" paint scheme (which would be VERY prototypical for a PFE train from the mid 1940s thru the mid 1960s .

 

There is a pretty good video on amazon about the PFE  ..  From its start until now.   I think its trains unlimited but just search amazon movies for TRAINS.    

Jim 

Steims posted:

A gentleman by the name of Joseph A. Strapac authored several books on the SP diesels.  Try some searches using his name and you may find what you seek. 

Thanks Steims, lots of material there, I'll start reading!

I worked on 4th street in Berkeley in the 1960s. Right next to the SP mainline. There was train after train of PFE refers went by all day. As I recall they were all pulled by F units. 

Hot Water posted:

OPeg posted:

Hi, I'm a newbie here, thanks for conversation!

I'm considering adding the new Lionel PFE set 6-84296 to my collection.  This would be my first diesel, other than the Christmas RS3 reindeer run.   I would buy the set and add the second SD40R they have listed separately to run.  

What kind of PFE refrigerators are you referring to? Are the ice reefers, or mechanical "modern era" reefers?  Mechanical reefers lettered both UP and SP

My question is, did SP use the SD40R on PFE?

Again, what type of PFE reefers are they? Without don a lot of research, I'm pretty sure that ice reefers of any kind were pretty well gone the era/time frame of SP "SD40R" diesel units. 

 I've been doing some research, but not finding a good resource.  I'd kinda like to use my UP#844, or even SP#4449, with the SD40Rs pushing, but I'm thinking that would be rare to see.

Yes, pure fantasy.

Ultimately not a huge deal, as I'm just running 'em for  me and the hubby, but wouldn't want a visitor to guffaw, you know?

Well, you never know. For what it's worth, I model in the very late 1940s thru the early/mid 1950s, when the SP still had a lot of steam power in service. I tend to use large SP steam locomotives to haul my 40 car PFE reefer train, but occasionally use a four unit set of MTH F3 A-B-B-A diesel in the famous SP "Black Widow" paint scheme (which would be VERY prototypical for a PFE train from the mid 1940s thru the mid 1960s&nbsp.

Lionel's  text on the set indicates that they've detailed the SD40R #7350 circa 1990. My understanding was that PFE was disbanded in '78.  I'm feeling that I would be closer to history by trying to model about 1975, with mechanicals and a diesel from that time.

 

 

 

carsntrains posted:

There is a pretty good video on amazon about the PFE  ..  From its start until now.   I think its trains unlimited but just search amazon movies for TRAINS.    

Jim 

Thanks Jim, I'll check it out!

I would think that the SD40R's could be appropriate for a modern reefer block as this set might represent. The tunnel motors were used also at this time as well . Thinkining if you want to run your 844 with it, You might conceive that the steamer is on a break in run after some work in the shops. Have fun but try to keep the reindeer out of the consist  

David Johnston posted:

I worked on 4th street in Berkeley in the 1960s. Right next to the SP mainline. There was train after train of PFE refers went by all day. As I recall they were all pulled by F units. 

Nothing like first hand experiences!

LIRR Steamer posted:

I would think that the SD40R's could be appropriate for a modern reefer block as this set might represent. The tunnel motors were used also at this time as well . Thinkining if you want to run your 844 with it, You might conceive that the steamer is on a break in run after some work in the shops. Have fun but try to keep the reindeer out of the consist  

I like that..and yes the reindeer will be 'stabled' until December....ok, maybe November!

OPeg posted:

Hot Water posted:

OPeg posted:

Hi, I'm a newbie here, thanks for conversation!

I'm considering adding the new Lionel PFE set 6-84296 to my collection.  This would be my first diesel, other than the Christmas RS3 reindeer run.   I would buy the set and add the second SD40R they have listed separately to run.  

What kind of PFE refrigerators are you referring to? Are the ice reefers, or mechanical "modern era" reefers?  Mechanical reefers lettered both UP and SP

My question is, did SP use the SD40R on PFE?

Again, what type of PFE reefers are they? Without don a lot of research, I'm pretty sure that ice reefers of any kind were pretty well gone the era/time frame of SP "SD40R" diesel units. 

 I've been doing some research, but not finding a good resource.  I'd kinda like to use my UP#844, or even SP#4449, with the SD40Rs pushing, but I'm thinking that would be rare to see.

Yes, pure fantasy.

Ultimately not a huge deal, as I'm just running 'em for  me and the hubby, but wouldn't want a visitor to guffaw, you know?

Well, you never know. For what it's worth, I model in the very late 1940s thru the early/mid 1950s, when the SP still had a lot of steam power in service. I tend to use large SP steam locomotives to haul my 40 car PFE reefer train, but occasionally use a four unit set of MTH F3 A-B-B-A diesel in the famous SP "Black Widow" paint scheme (which would be VERY prototypical for a PFE train from the mid 1940s thru the mid 1960s&nbsp.

Lionel's  text on the set indicates that they've detailed the SD40R #7350 circa 1990. My understanding was that PFE was disbanded in '78.  I'm feeling that I would be closer to history by trying to model about 1975, with mechanicals and a diesel from that time.

 

Except, does any manufacturer make/offer correct mechanical PFE refrigerator cars for that era?  

 

 

Hot Water posted:

OPeg posted:

Hot Water posted:

OPeg posted:

Hi, I'm a newbie here, thanks for conversation!

I'm considering adding the new Lionel PFE set 6-84296 to my collection.  This would be my first diesel, other than the Christmas RS3 reindeer run.   I would buy the set and add the second SD40R they have listed separately to run.  

What kind of PFE refrigerators are you referring to? Are the ice reefers, or mechanical "modern era" reefers?  Mechanical reefers lettered both UP and SP

My question is, did SP use the SD40R on PFE?

Again, what type of PFE reefers are they? Without don a lot of research, I'm pretty sure that ice reefers of any kind were pretty well gone the era/time frame of SP "SD40R" diesel units. 

 I've been doing some research, but not finding a good resource.  I'd kinda like to use my UP#844, or even SP#4449, with the SD40Rs pushing, but I'm thinking that would be rare to see.

Yes, pure fantasy.

Ultimately not a huge deal, as I'm just running 'em for  me and the hubby, but wouldn't want a visitor to guffaw, you know?

Well, you never know. For what it's worth, I model in the very late 1940s thru the early/mid 1950s, when the SP still had a lot of steam power in service. I tend to use large SP steam locomotives to haul my 40 car PFE reefer train, but occasionally use a four unit set of MTH F3 A-B-B-A diesel in the famous SP "Black Widow" paint scheme (which would be VERY prototypical for a PFE train from the mid 1940s thru the mid 1960s&nbsp.

Lionel's  text on the set indicates that they've detailed the SD40R #7350 circa 1990. My understanding was that PFE was disbanded in '78.  I'm feeling that I would be closer to history by trying to model about 1975, with mechanicals and a diesel from that time.

 

Except, does any manufacturer make/offer correct mechanical PFE refrigerator cars for that era?  

Yes, true.  hmmm, I might rethink this whole gambit.

 

 

 

The produce traffic in ice reefers was gone by the early 70's.  Any road freight diesel power used after 1947-1949 woudl be appropriate.  In the case of the SP, that means F3 or F7.  The SP bought 

80 F3 A

80 F3 B

250 F7 a

220 F7 B

For more info non this subject, refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F3 and similar Wiki articles.

Malcolm Laughlin

I’m not an SP guy, but a quick search finds  the espee railfan site, which says the SP’s SD40R rebuild program began in 1980:

http://espee.railfan.net/spsd40r.html

My hunch is that the difference between a circa 1975 SD40 and a post 1980-81 rebuilt SD40R will be beyond the ken of your visitors. But I’m also guessing that PFE is a red herring here and the set is properly dated as representing 1990. Lionel doesn’t call it a “PFE” set; they call it The “Salad Bowl Express” and the cars look to have SPFE reporting marks, not “PFE.”  

The UP/SP mechanical reefers were still around on UP and SP as late as 1990 and beyond. I’m guessing the set cars represent SP cars or former PFE cars turned over to SP after 1978. At any rate it strikes me as a very plausible combination of locomotive and cars for the early 90s and looks like a nice set. Maybe search SP railfan or historical sites or Google “Salad Bowl Express” for more information.

RM

In some of my Sunrise books I remember the SP F units were black widows, my third favorite color scheme.  

I saw them in 1949 and 1950.  They were a hundred cars long, with a late model AC on front and a four unit matched set of black widow Diesels pushing.   I cannot remember where the caboose was - probably behind the Diesels.

I never saw black widows in less than ABBA configuration until the late 1950s.

I never saw a PA without two PBs behind it - even on the mail trains.

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

That is highly unlikely for several reasons.

1. They were geared for passenger service.

2. There is no reason to think that there was a lack of the usual freight power on weekends.

3. Power for a fruit block in that area would not have made a deadhead move from San Jose to the freight origin and from its destiantion back to San Jose.

Rich Montague posted:

I’m not an SP guy, but a quick search finds  the espee railfan site, which says the SP’s SD40R rebuild program began in 1980:

http://espee.railfan.net/spsd40r.html

My hunch is that the difference between a circa 1975 SD40 and a post 1980-81 rebuilt SD40R will be beyond the ken of your visitors. But I’m also guessing that PFE is a red herring here and the set is properly dated as representing 1990. Lionel doesn’t call it a “PFE” set; they call it The “Salad Bowl Express” and the cars look to have SPFE reporting marks, not “PFE.”  

The UP/SP mechanical reefers were still around on UP and SP as late as 1990 and beyond. I’m guessing the set cars represent SP cars or former PFE cars turned over to SP after 1978. At any rate it strikes me as a very plausible combination of locomotive and cars for the early 90s and looks like a nice set. Maybe search SP railfan or historical sites or Google “Salad Bowl Express” for more information.

RM

Thank you Rich, that’s exactly what I was starting to think, thinking Salad Bowl vs Fruit, and I’m glad for the confirmation. 

Thanks everyone, really nice to be able to bounce thoughts/ ideas around. I’ve come to the decision that ‘90s is a later decade than I want to model. Ordered Joseph Strapac’s “Southern Pacific Historic Diesels Volume 10: EMD Freight F-unit Locomotives”, and found a blog by a Tony Thompson which hopefully will help with the creation of a plausible freight consist. 

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

I would think Dominic was referring to one of the 14 FM H24-66’s that Southern Pacific owned. My first thought was the Train Master, but BW must not be a typo: the “B” is not close to the “T” and the “W” is on the other side of the keyboard from the “M”. How about Bull Worker?

TM Terry posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

I would think Dominic was referring to one of the 14 FM H24-66’s that Southern Pacific owned. My first thought was the Train Master, but BW must not be a typo: the “B” is not close to the “T” and the “W” is on the other side of the keyboard from the “M”. How about Bull Worker?

There is no BW in anywhere in Fairbanks-Morse nomenclature. 

Even thought the Train Masters were used in weekend freight service, they would have been kept fairly close to home so they could return to their weekday duties.  I have seen a photo of the SP Train Masters on sugar beet train service.

Rusty

TM Terry posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

I would think Dominic was referring to one of the 14 FM H24-66’s that Southern Pacific owned. My first thought was the Train Master, but BW must not be a typo: the “B” is not close to the “T” and the “W” is on the other side of the keyboard from the “M”. How about Bull Worker?

Nope. Typical of Mr. mazoch to use "odd-ball" abbreviations. He most likely meant "BW" to mean "Black Widow". However, how would the original poster, who admittedly is new to the forum joining only 3 days ago, know what a "BW locomotive" means?

645 posted:

I would recommend starting with a book or two specifically about PFE proper to determine what era your reefers are (if they even fit PFE from 1978 or earlier which does not appear to be the case based on the last few posts here) then you can figure out the most appropriate diesels to use from that.

Below Wikipedia page on PFE lists three books that deal with PFE - you'll find them in the 'Further Reading' section:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Fruit_Express

Even though PFE was split up in 1978 since there were still hundreds of reefers it took time to repaint (or even just update the reporting marks) the fleet and since reefer traffic was already in decline I'm sure a number of these reefers were retired/scrapped still in full PFE paint. So it also could be prototypical to have some PFE reefers post-1978 as well if you lean towards that era.

Also don't overlook that PFE also had refrigerated truck trailers that traveled the rails aboard piggyback flats for another way to represent PFE on your layout:

Thank you 645, I'd missed the books listed on that wiki page, just requested "The great yellow fleet" through ILL., looks like a great couple resources!

As a young boy on drives with my parents around San Jose area in the very early 50's we would see long strings of PFE cars by every late steam engine Southern Pacific had, including stripped of their skirts Daylight  engines. Never saw a diesel pull them but I'm sure they would later be pulled by F units. Don

Hot Water posted:

 how would the original poster, who admittedly is new to the forum joining only 3 days ago, know what a "BW locomotive" means?

BW = Bush Whacker?  Wrong forum, but former TCA President Clem Clement has a tin plate homemade standard gauge locomotive affectionately known as "Stomper".  It appears to have an old drill motor in it and there are many questionable claims to fame about the pulling power of this one of a kind locomotive in TCA standard gauge circles.  I suppose a weed whacker motor might work just as well. 

On a serious note, welcome to the forum OPEG.  There are some really good references listed here and I'd be interested to see what you ultimately decided to go with.  SP was one of my current hometown roads and while I'm a former east coaster and model other roads, learning about the Espee is always fun.

Hot Water posted:

TM Terry posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

I would think Dominic was referring to one of the 14 FM H24-66’s that Southern Pacific owned. My first thought was the Train Master, but BW must not be a typo: the “B” is not close to the “T” and the “W” is on the other side of the keyboard from the “M”. How about Bull Worker?

Nope. Typical of Mr. mazoch to use "odd-ball" abbreviations. He most likely meant "BW" to mean "Black Widow". However, how would the original poster, who admittedly is new to the forum joining only 3 days ago, know what a "BW locomotive" means?

Well, I sure didn't guess that BW was an abbreviation for Black Widow.  I guess it's something I can put on my BL (Bucket List...) so I can scratch it off.

I guess then BN would be "Bloody Nose"

And HW would stand for "Halloween."

Rusty

scale rail posted:

As a young boy on drives with my parents around San Jose area in the very early 50's we would see long strings of PFE cars by every late steam engine Southern Pacific had, including stripped of their skirts Daylight  engines. Never saw a diesel pull them but I'm sure they would later be pulled by F units. Don

Wonderful!

Rusty Traque posted:

Hot Water posted:

TM Terry posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

I would think Dominic was referring to one of the 14 FM H24-66’s that Southern Pacific owned. My first thought was the Train Master, but BW must not be a typo: the “B” is not close to the “T” and the “W” is on the other side of the keyboard from the “M”. How about Bull Worker?

Nope. Typical of Mr. mazoch to use "odd-ball" abbreviations. He most likely meant "BW" to mean "Black Widow". However, how would the original poster, who admittedly is new to the forum joining only 3 days ago, know what a "BW locomotive" means?

Well, I sure didn't guess that BW was an abbreviation for Black Widow.  I guess it's something I can put on my BL (Bucket List...) so I can scratch it off.

I guess then BN would be "Bloody Nose"

And HW would stand for "Halloween."

Rusty

I did assume it meant Black Widow!     But I rolled right past it really, because I keep looking at cab forwards instead of diesels, so maybe I'm just wanting more steam and not ready to move into my "diesel phase".

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"  (Not that it's a bad thing to stay in steam!)

To think at lunch I would sit in my news car and watch those beauties being turned on a turntable at Mission Yard in San Francisco. A couple thousand ft. of 16mm color sound film in my trunk with a new CP-16 camera and I never thought to pull it out and film. I guess I thought they would always be there. Don

TM Terry posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

I would think Dominic was referring to one of the 14 FM H24-66’s that Southern Pacific owned. My first thought was the Train Master, but BW must not be a typo: the “B” is not close to the “T” and the “W” is on the other side of the keyboard from the “M”. How about Bull Worker?

Right loco.  BW was Black Widow.  Sorry for the confusion.

OPeg posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Hot Water posted:

TM Terry posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I would consider a BW big 6 axle FM unit from the San Jose commute fleet.  Say it is a weekend!  Refers would have to be correct for the BW locomotive!

OK, just what is a "BW locomotive"?

I would think Dominic was referring to one of the 14 FM H24-66’s that Southern Pacific owned. My first thought was the Train Master, but BW must not be a typo: the “B” is not close to the “T” and the “W” is on the other side of the keyboard from the “M”. How about Bull Worker?

Nope. Typical of Mr. mazoch to use "odd-ball" abbreviations. He most likely meant "BW" to mean "Black Widow". However, how would the original poster, who admittedly is new to the forum joining only 3 days ago, know what a "BW locomotive" means?

Well, I sure didn't guess that BW was an abbreviation for Black Widow.  I guess it's something I can put on my BL (Bucket List...) so I can scratch it off.

I guess then BN would be "Bloody Nose"

And HW would stand for "Halloween."

Rusty

I did assume it meant Black Widow!     But I rolled right past it really, because I keep looking at cab forwards instead of diesels, so maybe I'm just wanting more steam and not ready to move into my "diesel phase".

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"  (Not that it's a bad thing to stay in steam!)

This is so much fun!

Rusty Traque posted:

. . . thought the Train Masters were used in weekend freight service, they would have been kept fairly close to home so they could return to their weekday duties.  I have seen a photo of the SP Train Masters on sugar beet train service.

Rusty

They were.  

They were originally tried in freight service out of El Paso, but -- after a couple of years -- found their home in the SP commute service between San Francisco and San Jose.

They may well have pulled some reefer blocks during their first couple of years down on the Golden State Route, but, after assignment to the commute pool, their weekend use on freight trains in the Bay Area seemed to be mostly on drags moving only within that area, usually not further from home than Roseville.  Solid reefer trains mostly originated outside the Bay Area, in the Central Valley or Los Angeles Basin and moved eastward, either over the Overland Route or down the valley to Los Angeles and then over the Golden State Route.  Some (less) originated on the Coast Line and moved in solid blocks.

My recollection of SP reefer trains matches up with that of earlier posts -- black widow F7's and F3's, and, earlier, AC 4-8-8-2's.  I do recall seeing a photo of a reefer block being pulled by a Daylight 4-8-4 in black with skirts removed, but that was likely the exception more than the rule.  Because reefers carry time-sensitive perishable fruit and vegetables, they were dieselized early by SP, to make better time over the road.

Was thinking about that film on the PFE.   It was "Tracks ahead"   ...  Memory aint what it used to be lol

Jim

First - Rule #1:    It is your railroad and you can run/do what ever you want.    Any guests that question that, refer them to rule #1.    

But more seriously, SD40s (I am not sure what the R means) were much later than steam ran.    So mixing them with a UP 844 steamer would not be prototypical.     Steam phased out in the 50s on most mainlines.     SD40s were not made until the mid-60s and then later for the "dash-2".      

Diesels that might compatible would all be first generation - F-units, SD-9s, GP9s, the FM H24-66 mentioned above (trainmaster) etc.     And if you stick with UP, the steam turbines they had a fleet of.

prrjim posted:

First - Rule #1:    It is your railroad and you can run/do what ever you want.   

Except she SPECIFICALLY ask for prototype information!

Any guests that question that, refer them to rule #1. 

Beautiful.   

But more seriously, SD40s (I am not sure what the R means)

On the SP that "R" usually meant "Rebuilt/Remanufactured"

were much later than steam ran.    So mixing them with a UP 844 steamer would not be prototypical.     Steam phased out in the 50s on most mainlines.     SD40s were not made until the mid-60s and then later for the "dash-2". 

The SP SD40R units were from the early 1980s and later.     

Diesels that might compatible would all be first generation - F-units, SD-9s, GP9s, the FM H24-66 mentioned above (trainmaster) etc. 

The FM H24-66 was a Train Master.

    And if you stick with UP, the steam turbines they had a fleet of.

To my knowledge the UP had only one "steam turbine". The UP did however have quite a nice fleet of gas turbine locomotives. Except, the original poster was/is inquiring about Southern Pacific diesel handling PFE reefer trains.

 

Hot Water posted:

prrjim posted:

First - Rule #1:    It is your railroad and you can run/do what ever you want.   

Except she SPECIFICALLY ask for prototype information!

Any guests that question that, refer them to rule #1. 

Beautiful.   

But more seriously, SD40s (I am not sure what the R means)

On the SP that "R" usually meant "Rebuilt/Remanufactured"

were much later than steam ran.    So mixing them with a UP 844 steamer would not be prototypical.     Steam phased out in the 50s on most mainlines.     SD40s were not made until the mid-60s and then later for the "dash-2". 

The SP SD40R units were from the early 1980s and later.     

Diesels that might compatible would all be first generation - F-units, SD-9s, GP9s, the FM H24-66 mentioned above (trainmaster) etc. 

The FM H24-66 was a Train Master.

    And if you stick with UP, the steam turbines they had a fleet of.

To my knowledge the UP had only one "steam turbine". The UP did however have quite a nice fleet of gas turbine locomotives. Except, the original poster was/is inquiring about Southern Pacific diesel handling PFE reefer trains.

 

 

prrjim posted:

First - Rule #1:    It is your railroad and you can run/do what ever you want.    Any guests that question that, refer them to rule #1.    

But more seriously, SD40s (I am not sure what the R means) were much later than steam ran.    So mixing them with a UP 844 steamer would not be prototypical.     Steam phased out in the 50s on most mainlines.     SD40s were not made until the mid-60s and then later for the "dash-2".      

Diesels that might compatible would all be first generation - F-units, SD-9s, GP9s, the FM H24-66 mentioned above (trainmaster) etc.     And if you stick with UP, the steam turbines they had a fleet of.

 

prrjim posted:

First - Rule #1:    It is your railroad and you can run/do what ever you want.    Any guests that question that, refer them to rule #1.    

But more seriously, SD40s (I am not sure what the R means) were much later than steam ran.    So mixing them with a UP 844 steamer would not be prototypical.     Steam phased out in the 50s on most mainlines.     SD40s were not made until the mid-60s and then later for the "dash-2".      

Diesels that might compatible would all be first generation - F-units, SD-9s, GP9s, the FM H24-66 mentioned above (trainmaster) etc.     And if you stick with UP, the steam turbines they had a fleet of.

 

Thanks prrjim and HotWater!  I think in my initial post I was mixing too many things that I want to see one the layout...  I want to build a long freight consist with diesel, I also have excursions of the #4449 on the brain, seeing them assisted by diesel...

Since the reefers I already own are all wood-sided, I am going to stick to running them with steam...I really would like a cab forward, and I'll have to save up for that... and I am going to start adding in some steel sided reefers while I research more on PFE routes and diesel.  (Have to wait for those books to come through the library.)

I think the new Lionel set with mech. reefers is too modern for what I have in mind... I like the ice work. I saw a review of the vision line steel sided reefers on Youtube that really make me want to stay in the early era. 

Is there a forum on "train masters"?

You might try Google for additional information on the FM "Train Master" 2400 HP diesel units.