It would make sense for Union Pacific to run excursions in the Chicago area. So why don't they do it? I know 765 had an issue with clearance, is that why 844 doesn't visit?
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You tend to forget that UP doesn't run any excursions. They merely provide equipment for groups willing to sponsor an excursion. And it usually involves Amtrak for insurance purposes.
Railfan Brody posted:It would make sense for Union Pacific to run excursions in the Chicago area.
Why do you think THAT? In the first place the Union Pacific does NOT "run excursions", unless there is a outside organization to SPONSOR such excursions. Apparently, there are no longer any "sponsoring organizations" in the Chicago area wilingl to foot the bill to lease the UP passenger consist & 844 for such excursions.
So why don't they do it?
See above.
I know 765 had an issue with clearance, is that why 844 doesn't visit?
The last time either UP 844 or 3985 visited the Chicago area was 2005. There were no "clearance issues" since neither locomotive ventured east of Proviso Yard, i.e. they did NOT go into Chicago. UP has obviously not seen the need to bring steam to Chicago, what with such a VERY busy main line, westward out of Proviso Yard, including vast quantities of commuter trains, on that three track main line.
645 posted:Brody - I recall 3985 made it to Dolton's Yard Center on the C&EI side but don't recall how it was routed there. This was back in 1993:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...cture.aspx?id=694646
That trip came up from Saint Louis, and was part of the NRHS National Convention held in Chicago that year. The 3985 handled an excursion southward out of Dolton Yard on the former C&EI through Villa Grove, and returned that evening.
Dolton is east and south of Proviso but this excursion could have come up the C&EI from the St. Louis area and not the CNW mainline from Fremont, NE so Hot Water still may be 100% correct UP steam didn't run east of Proviso. Even today certain Metra diesels (MP36's I believe) can't operate on the ex-CNW lines out of downtown owing to weight restrictions on many bridges. I know Metra has been replacing those bridges with new stronger ones so in time this may not be an issue. I mention this as weight restrictions is most likely why UP won't run steam east of Proviso. Plus once you get into Ogilvie Transportation Center (NorthWestern Metra station) can't turn the power at the station as it's stub ended just like Metra's (ex-Rock Island) LaSalle Street station which is another complication.
NS also ran steam powered excursions back in those days too. IIRC most of the Chicago area steam trips in the 1990's were sponsored by the Chicago Chapter of the NRHS. They stopped running trips on an annual basis when the NS pulled the plug on the steam program in 1994. Back then they usually sponsored a Chicago to Fort Wayne round trip over the ex-NKP.
So that's more information for you to ponder over and I'm sure others may chime in on the above...
What about curves and turnout radii that might restrict running locations in Chicago?
rrman posted:What about curves and turnout radii that might restrict running locations in Chicago?
Good question in spite of the sponsoring issues...
I seem to recall that 4449 had a 'clearance' issue in negotiating trackage south of Chicago. Can't recall whether it resulted in a schedule delay or some other problem. Clarification, anyone???
I stood trackside as that gorgeous engine departed Owosso, MI for the last time several years ago. Yeah, I can surely understand clearance issues with an engine that size. I would imagine 844 might encounter the same/similar situations here and there on unfamiliar alignments.
Considering the costs of insurance...and everyone's finger stuck in that gargantuan pie for a market like Chicago!!...it'll take more than a 'Sugar Daddy' to sponsor such a visit, I 'spect. Kaaaaaaa-ching!
dkdkrd posted:rrman posted:What about curves and turnout radii that might restrict running locations in Chicago?
Good question in spite of the sponsoring issues...
I seem to recall that 4449 had a 'clearance' issue in negotiating trackage south of Chicago. Can't recall whether it resulted in a schedule delay or some other problem. Clarification, anyone???
Someone in Amtrak headquarters "discovered/determined" that 4449 could not safely negotiate the deck bridges on the former NYC main line out of Chicago Union Station through Engelwood, and on into Michigan. The width over the cylinders & skirting was alleged the interference. Naturally with Amtrak's efficiency, this "discovery" occurred long after we had departed Portland, and were already in Minneapolis, MN!
We thus had to return to Congress Park, on the former CB&Q main line, and used the interchange track with the IHB, in order to progress eastward toward Michigan City, IN.
I stood trackside as that gorgeous engine departed Owosso, MI for the last time several years ago. Yeah, I can surely understand clearance issues with an engine that size. I would imagine 844 might encounter the same/similar situations here and there on unfamiliar alignments.
Generally speaking track curvature and turnouts are not a problem.
Considering the costs of insurance...and everyone's finger stuck in that gargantuan pie for a market like Chicago!!...it'll take more than a 'Sugar Daddy' to sponsor such a visit, I 'spect. Kaaaaaaa-ching!
Right, plus the Chicago Chapter of the NRHS is NOT what it used to be.
Hot Water posted:Railfan Brody posted:It would make sense for Union Pacific to run excursions in the Chicago area.
Why do you think THAT? In the first place the Union Pacific does NOT "run excursions", unless there is a outside organization to SPONSOR such excursions. Apparently, there are no longer any "sponsoring organizations" in the Chicago area wilingl to foot the bill to lease the UP passenger consist & 844 for such excursions.
So why don't they do it?
See above.
I know 765 had an issue with clearance, is that why 844 doesn't visit?
The last time either UP 844 or 3985 visited the Chicago area was 2005. There were no "clearance issues" since neither locomotive ventured east of Proviso Yard, i.e. they did NOT go into Chicago. UP has obviously not seen the need to bring steam to Chicago, what with such a VERY busy main line, westward out of Proviso Yard, including vast quantities of commuter trains, on that three track main line.
Jack, don't you mean 2002? Unless I missed something. 844 was in Chicago in Aug/Sep. 1996 and 3985 came in Jun. 2002. I had read somewhere that 844 was supposed to go to IRM with the E units but weight issues kept it off the Fox River bridge supposedly? Any truth to that? Now that I think about it 6936 was at IRM in 2013 so it had to go same route and weighs close to 844 I'm sure.
MJV1988 posted:Hot Water posted:Railfan Brody posted:It would make sense for Union Pacific to run excursions in the Chicago area.
Why do you think THAT? In the first place the Union Pacific does NOT "run excursions", unless there is a outside organization to SPONSOR such excursions. Apparently, there are no longer any "sponsoring organizations" in the Chicago area wilingl to foot the bill to lease the UP passenger consist & 844 for such excursions.
So why don't they do it?
See above.
I know 765 had an issue with clearance, is that why 844 doesn't visit?
The last time either UP 844 or 3985 visited the Chicago area was 2005. There were no "clearance issues" since neither locomotive ventured east of Proviso Yard, i.e. they did NOT go into Chicago. UP has obviously not seen the need to bring steam to Chicago, what with such a VERY busy main line, westward out of Proviso Yard, including vast quantities of commuter trains, on that three track main line.
Jack, don't you mean 2002?
You may be correct, as I do seem to remember the 3985 trip to Chicago in 2002.
Unless I missed something. 844 was in Chicago in Aug/Sep. 1996 and 3985 came in Jun. 2002. I had read somewhere that 844 was supposed to go to IRM with the E units but weight issues kept it off the Fox River bridge supposedly? Any truth to that?
I don't recall any thing about that. However, I do remember that there was no place at IRM to turn 844 (she would NOT have been able to negotiate the wye at IRM), for the return move.
Now that I think about it 6936 was at IRM in 2013 so it had to go same route and weighs close to 844 I'm sure.
12 years or so ago I seen 3985 while was sitting at West Chicago. An excursion trip took it north somewhere up by Milwaukee...If I'd known it was last time I seen her in steam I would have lingered around awhile longer 
I rode behind #3985 on an excursion from the south suburban UP yard (Dolton?) down the C&EI (?) to Villa Grove and return on my 40th birthday in July, 1989. (It turned on the wye down there.) In 1993, I photographed it at DeVal Tower (in DesPlaines) on the C&NW New Line during the convention. In 2000, I purchased the Lionel JLC model of it, and its one of my favorites.
That's my personal experience with this big locomotive here in the Chicago area.
i have wonderful memories of 3985 stopping in Elmhurst , which is just west of Chicago in 2002. I remember hearing that whistle and thinking man, this sounds just like my JLC version of 3985. I believe that was the 1st JLC locomotive offered. It stopped for 20 minutes just past York road for pictures. Tons of people there. I recorded it with something, wasn't a VHS , something smaller, don't what I did with that recording though. Great memories.
