Williams Engines

K i am looking at the Jersey Central because i can get it so much cheaper than the Lionel or MTH.  I just want a blue comet set, but its hard to buy outside of those two because i dont know anything about the other Ogague companies and dont want to buy junk.

I assume you mean the "Jersey Central" FM Trainmaster? If not, what engine? If it is the Trainmaster, a friend, forum member and fellow Tracker has one from the 1980s I think and it is still running beautifully on its original motors and electronics.

You really can't go wrong with any of the manufacturers. Of course, that is no guarantee you won't get a lemon but depending on what you want (Blue Comet, Lionel just shipped a beautiful Legacy Equipped version and I believe MTH has one coming out in the somewhat near future). Buy what you like and can afford. If electronics and command control aren't your thing, Check out Williams. I also believe Weaver is still producing conventional locomotives. 

I have a C&O E7 ABA set. I added motors to the B unit. It is the best puller I own, hands down. Also have a BL2 Demonstrator and EF-4 N&W. Both excellent pullers. Since I have not ever experienced a problem, I have no feedback to offer on WBB customer service.

I would rate Williams as "basic" when it comes to details and sound system. Excellent for reliability and operation. On our modular club layout, I run WBB almost exclusively. The nice brass and Premier stuff stays at home.

Gilly

They do have a very good reputation for running and running.  Many operastors of large layouts that are open to the public seem to prefer them.  Why over Lionel and MTH I'm not sure.

My own experience:  I've had 3; just traded one away, and have been delighted.  Compare to 4 late-model Lionels that have each given trouble in 3 different ways total.  MTH I have none of.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/...d&productId=2468

Not sure just the one i found on the website that is the blue comet engine.  360 is a ton less than 1000.  I dont have an remote systems yet.

Williams has an excellent reputation for producing engines and cars to RUN. Strictly conventional, very basic no frills sounds. The electronics are simple and robust. The engines are generally well made and known for being "stump pullers." That said, except for a VERY few oddities, they are NOT considered collectable. Over the years, Williams has made its mark by producing reproductions of almost every type of Lionel rolling stock and engine, and then adding paint schemes to the production list that Lionel never had. If a reproduction is OK in your house, then by all means, go for it.

Chris

LVHR

PS People have been known to convert them to command control.

Yeah thats what i am fighting right now.  Lionel or williams.  The new Lionel are really nice but i dont have the Legacy system.  Its just a debate right now and how much i want to spend.  Tough for me.

I have a PRR F7 ABA set from 1997.

The A units are powered and the B unit has an OTT sound system.

I ran them for three years at club shows like Greenberg in Pennsauken.

Use them on the home layout all the time and they are  running just fine

I my experience, based on buying a lot of all three:

Williams come from the factory with the same overall quality as Lionel and MTH, meaning slightly less than stellar attention to detail. However, there is less to go wrong with them than on Lionel and MTH because they are more basic, fewer electronics, features, etc., so the net is that fewer of them have anything wrong.  

And my impression is that they are more durable - will run for hours and hours of constant running with no problems.  Admittedly I have a rather small sample here but I hear this from others, too.

Many of the older steamer designs seem geared for too high a top speed for me.  But the new Baldwin ten wheeler is maybe the best basic steam loco in O I have seen, a very smooth, very quiet, slow runner.  Fantastic.

I have several and they have run well for years.  My next engine will be a Williams B&M F3.  I hope they get them out in a reasonable amount of time.   

I own several Williams also and Love them. The only real problem I had was with my NS f3 set. After one year and a couple months a drive wheel fell off the rear truck. I bought another truck and went right back to pulling the same 8 MTH passenger cars.

You can' t beat them for the price and quality.

Rob

I have a number of Williams engines (EL-5,BL-2, two NW-2's,SD-45, RF-16, Genesis and a Berkshire). They run without problems, are solidly built and I recommend them for the folks running conventional. The sound is nothing to write home about but can be augmented by a simple $69 multi-sound box.

The prices on the Bachman website are MSRP and dealers offer the engines at a good discount (check the ads in the latest OGR magazine). The variety of road names is excellent and they offer liveries seldom or never done by others.

Should you wish to upgrade to TMCC later, the cost of the Williams + the TMCC upgrade is often less than the original cost of a new Command Control engine.

The quality is better than all but newest conventional engines by Lionel or MTH that I have seen. I cannot comment on repair quality or speed, since I have never had one go bad (and my oldest Williams dates to 1998).

Tony

Up on "The D & H Bridge Line" 

I have seen that. I have found the engine for 360 where the Lionel i was looking at is 989 for the same, all i have is a basic transformer so the command control is not much of an issue right now.  I just am not sure if I want the great detail and blue comet with command control or just have a blue comet now.  The new legacy comet is nice but it better be for the price.  I am sure they will come out again in the future.  MTH looks nice as well but no telling when it will be out and it is still like 800 or so still a big price difference.  

i have several williams diesels and they run very well.very powerful.i have tmcc and dcs systems but i run a lot of conventional locos including lionel,mth,as well as williams.

for the price you cant beat williams.good deals can be had if you look around.have fun and run them trains!

terry......

My kids and I own a few Williams diesels, they are great performers for conventional operation. We also own a Blue Ridge Hauler set that has a 746 J Class 4-8-4 steam engine. Could never get the Sleuthe smoke unit to work, ended up replacing it with an Aristo-Craft fan driven smoke unit (was not happy about doing this). Other than that the engine performs excellent.

Ferromex

Anybody ever have a problem with cracked paint on a Williams/Bachmann engine? I have a Penn Central GG-1 {not the scale engine} that has spider cracks in the paint all over the engine, the sides and top. I bought this engine second hand so of course I do not have a receipt. Just looking for any similiar cases?

Thanks,

Jeff

A couple of years ago I bought a Williams E7, a single "A" unit, unpowered.

I stripped the paint and repainted/lettered it to Seaboard Air Line colors, plus added separate details like handgrabs, stirrups, etc.

Several months later I bought the power upgrade kit, shortly after that I added the ERR Cruise Commander.

Here's what she looks like:

Last year around this time 3rd Rail announced they were going to do a run of their E7 in Seaboard paint.  They have gone to the trouble of duplicating some of the very engines that Seaboard ran, right down to the elongated handrails on the front of the engine.  From what I understand we should be seeing them before the end of the year.

The $$$ I put into the Williams E7 to get it "near" the level of detail and running characteristics (of a MTH or Lionel engine and still only have Conventional control), is so close to that of the 3rd rail engine, I wish I had saved my money and not bought the Williams unit and additional add-ons.

If you like your engines to look as close as possible to the prototype, I'd go with another brand.

The quality on the Williams before the Bachmann buyout was excellent!!

The new items by Bachmann or WBB as most people call them is good, except for the reverse boards. Reverse boards seem to fail at a very high rate on the newer WBB engines, possibly a bad batch of reverse units from China.

 Most major brands are now made in China.

This is my personal opion, but I prefer to buy the older Williams(when Jerry Williams owned Williams) only items. I have three powered F-7's by Williams from the Crown Edition that run very well, and have three powered SD-45's by Williams. I have an older Pennsy S-2 by Williams and have no problem with it. So far no problems other than a burnt out bulb.

I have some Williams passenger cars as well and they are made to last.

One note about Williams Crown Edition engines and Lionel's # 6-23010 & 23011 switches, they don't play well together. Not sure if it is just a certain run of engines or if it is all Williams engines with that Lionel switch.

Lee F.

"Reverse boards seem to fail at a very high rate on the newer WBB engines, possibly a bad batch of reverse units from China"

None of mine, nor any others that I know of have blown a board. That is news to me.

 Rob

SJC,

Was that a new Williams by Bachmann engine? If so, it is possible that Bachmann got a bad shipment of circuit boards from China.

What I did to two of my older Williams F-7's was to remove the circuit boards and install a 6 amp bridge rectifier in each engine. With this method you lose direction control but I wanted an engine that started in forwards only every time.

Lee F.

Rob,

It seems to be the newest Williams by Bachmann, within the last six to eight months that have this problem.

Lee F.

I just wish W/WBB have a way to lock out the E-Unit.

Also, dummy modern diesels for DP units at the end of my freights.

I had to drop a Dallee E unit in the WBB Peter Witt Streetcar so I could lock it in forward.

I would watch Ebay for one. The train masters and GP's don't sell well.

Rob

Lee, 

Both were bought brand new, WBB engines. The GP9 was a gem, problem free and pulled like an ox. The 1st turbine had a bad sound board. The 2nd, Motor problems, 3rd gear issues with some motor issues and the last one had MAJOR overheating issues, board problems, as well as more motor and gear issues, I think were caused by the heat. 

I have many Williams locos. Never had a failure, and, the detail on some is quite good, eg, E7's, GG1's etc and are easy and cheap to upgrade in any case. I'm going to add TMCC to some. There are also some great specials around, $185 for a scale GG1 is a steal.

I  have a great many Williams engines. Have had only one failure and Bachmann

was no help in supplying schematic help. I found the problem to be a five cent diode.

Generally Williams engines run just fine and one should have no qualms about buying.-- If I had sent my problem locomotive to  Bachmann, they probably would

have repaired the loco for free-- but the postage would have cost me far more than

the diode.

Al w.

I have 5 Williams locomotives, 4 diesels and one 4-6-4 small Hudson. All are excellent performers and have given me no problems at all. Ofcourse, I keep mine lubed and greased. If you want a no frills locomotive that will be reliable for a long time to come, I highly reccomend Williams/WbB locomotives.

Cobrabob.

I also have a few Williams old and new, no problems with mine. I heard the new GP30 at York in April, a retrofit sound board would be nice.

If you have an out of warranty Williams engine there are 2 guys who sells parts and service them. Beats paying shipping and the 30+ dollar fee Bachman charges.

Rob

Williams locomotives rate very high in my book.  They are well made and run fantastic.  I currently run several Williams GG-1 locomotives that I converted to DCS.  They are a big bang for your buck.  A stop at the Williams booth at York is a must.  Larry Harrington will always have something new to show.

I'm with Marty on this!  I have a good number of Williams engines and have found them to be well made and very reliable.  Even though I mostly operate with command control these days, the Williams locomotives will remain on the roster for the day if/when the CC stuff starts to give me problems and I feel the urge to go back to conventional running. 

An added plus is that the folks at WBB are first rate!

A simple $3 bridge rectifier would have done the same thing...

Upton 75,

I have the following Williams diesels for sale:

For Sale: Williams Wabash ABA F3 Diesels, Catalogue number: 20199 ("AA" Set) & 20299  (Dummy "B" Unit), Engine numbers: 2340  and 2340C

Condition: New, Inner boxes, outer boxes, and styrofoam all complete.

Note: Dummy unit is in original sealed carton.

Features: • A-A length 27"; height 3 " • 4 wheel trucks with traction tires • dual can motors on powered unit • flywheel coasting action • electronic 6-amp reverse board • True Blast II® digital horn and bell • die-cast frame, trucks, truck sides, and pilots • die-cast operating front coupler • front headlight • add-on handrails, steps, and ventilation screens

• minimum curve is O-27

Payments: Check is preferable, but Pay Pal is an option also.

Price: $ 225.00 New Price $ 210.00

Shipping: Standard ground (U.S. contiguous) $ 25.00 (estimated) or your choice of carrier.

I got many Williams engines and no problems with them. Had to ship a GG1 to Philly because of a problem and my berk doesn't smoke anymore but so far it's been good.

I have a NW2 switcher, and a PW style Berk, both pre-Bachman, both run flawlessly. Smoke isn't great on the Berk, but it's fine. Have thought about selling from time to time, but I'll probably keep them forever.

Tim

I just picked up my newest Williams pieces today. A set of Baldwin Sharks in Pennsy Brunswick green. Got them from Train World/Trainland for $199.99 with a free B unit. Very nice runners.

Cobrabob.