Wiring a MakerHawk Time Delay Relay model XY-LJ02 for a Lionel 132 Station

If you have wired the track like in the video, where there is only one stop and one timer relay module, only the 2 ends of the entire isolated section should have insulating pins, regardless of how many track pieces are in the detection zone.

Also the images you attempted to post earlier are " Image Not Found".

Butchie: Does this look like the relay module that you are using?

Butchie: This YouTube video was the best I could find on how to program this module. I think you want to use P4 program mode. It will delay before turning on and then remain on for another interval before turning off.

Home Automation: How to use 7 Program 0.1s to 9999 minutes Relay Timer XY-LJ02 - YouTube

I agree with Leo.  Mode 4 looks promising.  I don't have one of these and looked over the poorly translated PDF "user manual" that was on Amazon for what looks like what you have.

So when the train enters the isolated section, the wheel axle provides a low-level (outer rail) trigger which starts the timing sequence.  The center-rail power will remain OFF for CL seconds; you get to set CL.  Then after this delay, the center-rail power is applied for OP seconds; you get to set OP.  The OP interval should be long enough for the engine to leave the isolated section and re-enter the main track section that is always powered.  OP would probably be maybe 5 seconds or so...but must be short enough that the engine doesn't have time to make its way around the loop and re-enter the isolated section!

Thank you so much for such a quick response and I will try this later today but before I do, of the the two trigger ports  (one high - the top port, and the other low- third down from the top on the left side) I guess I should only be using one of those depending the volts I plan on using.  It's my understanding that I should use the "high" as the voltage is a fixed 12 V.  The other port is not used at all.  Secondly, it looks like there is a jumper wire from the ground (2nd port from the top on the left) to the "low" port in your example.  Is it fair to assume that if the "high" port trigger is used, then the jumper wire goes to the "high" port trigger?  I also see where I my wiring may gone array, as I notice in your drawing that you are using two insulating pins, both center and outer rails, which I was only using the pin for the outer rail.  If I have multiple track sections, should I use insulating pins throughout the track sections of the station location, or only where the train enters and exits the sections?

BTW, in your initial post I/we are still getting the "Image Not Found" placeholder.  I don't know what you were trying to show, but take that in context in interpreting what I'm working with so to speak.

Issue 1. Triggering.

Since you want to trigger the timing action using the insulated-rail method, you want a low-level trigger.  That is, the outer rail is typically considered to be 0 Volts and hence a "low" level.  Again, the user manual is poorly written/translated and I don't have a board in front of me.  But in the manual, they suggests that a simple switch connecting the 2nd and 3rd terminals (from the top) will trigger the module:

So I was looking at photos of the module, specifically the bottom of the board, and it appears the 2nd terminal from the top is the same signal as the 5th terminal from the top.  This may all be techno-babble but in this case the devil is truly in the details!  I believe you can trigger the module by connecting the low-level trigger input (3rd terminal) to the outer rail.  As shown in the diagrams, if the "-" (DC-, negative, ground, or whatever you call it) output of your 12V DC wall-wart power supply is connected to the outer rail, then you are good to go.

Issue 2. Insulating pins.

I'm not familiar with your Atlas track "system" but presumably there are regular pins and insulating pins that work for the outer rails and center rails.

So if I understand your question, for your 3-track-section insulated-rail "zone" you need 4 total insulating pins shown in pink boxes above.  All other pins would be regular/conducting pins.  Obviously once you have insulated the center and outer rail of the triggering zone, you must make 2 new electrical connections...one to the now-isolated center rail, one to the now-isolated outer rail.  These connections can be to any of the 3 sections within the zone.

Thank you Stan and everyone else who provided their input.  The image of the module that you provided appears to be the exact unit that I am attempting to wire-up.  I will have some time later this evening or Wednesday to dive into this.  I will provide my feedback as I work through the process.  Thanks again.

@stan2004 posted:

So if I understand your question, for your 3-track-section insulated-rail "zone" you need 4 total insulating pins shown in pink boxes above.  All other pins would be regular/conducting pins.  Obviously once you have insulated the center and outer rail of the triggering zone, you must make 2 new electrical connections...one to the now-isolated center rail, one to the now-isolated outer rail. These connections can be to any of the 3 sections within the zone.

I don't think you need to make an electrical connection to the isolated outer rail since the other outer rail will supply power for the train to move. The isolated outer rail connects to the low trigger on the relay and nothing else. The NO relay output connects to the center rail to provide the HOT power to the isolated section.

You will want the exit timing to allow for the whole train to move past the isolated section. Otherwise, the power will drop out and lighted passenger cars will go dark. Or the trailing cars could trigger the relay again as it's leaving the zone. Then depending on the wait time in the station, the next time around could cause the train to skip the station altogether.

Stan's wiring diagram makes sense to me.  Leo and Stan, I think you're both correct.  The only differences are the choices of words used to describe the connections.

The isolated outer rail gets directly connected to the low-level trigger input on the timer module.  The train wheels complete the low-level trigger circuit (from DC negative) and bridge track power common to both outside rails.

SteveH: I agree that Stan's diagram is correct as it stands. But he made it sound as though there were more to it than how he's got it worked out. It just struck me as a bit odd to think that the isolated outside rail should require another connection. Not a big deal. Don't think that I'm putting down Stan's work either. I find most of his advice and explanations most promising.

@Consolidated Leo posted:

SteveH: I agree that Stan's diagram is correct as it stands. But he made it sound as though there were more to it than how he's got it worked out. It just struck me as a bit odd to think that the isolated outside rail should require another connection. Not a big deal. Don't think that I'm putting down Stan's work either. I find most of his advice and explanations most promising.

Leo, thank you for your thoughtful response.  I didn't think you were finding fault, just trying to clarify and be helpful.

I can see your point of view/interpretation as well as what Stan probably meant about the isolated outside rail connection (to the trigger input).

I really appreciate yours and Stan's many contributions to this forum.  We're all trying to be helpful here.

Ok,  I was able to wire-up the relay switch as Stan illustrated and the relay light comes on and unit cycles through its program.  The train does stop at the station as anticipated but does not restart and I suspect it's because the relay is not programmed correctly.  My relay is the same relay used in Stan's photo above.  As suggested, I used program 4 and set the OP for 10 seconds and CL for 5 seconds.  As soon as the track is powered up, the CL starts its countdown while the train proceeds to the station where it stops and, by this time the CL has completed its count down and OP starts its count down for 10 seconds, but the train doesn't move.  I was under the impression that the OP count down would occur once the train first enters the insulated track section, at which time the OP would count down to 0 and the train resumes its travel through the layout and then CL would take over and count down its 5 seconds. If I am understanding the purpose of the CL, it is to allow the relay to power off to allow the train to continue on its path through the station and insulated track sections.  Where am I wrong on this?

@Butchie posted:

...

(1) As soon as the track is powered up, the CL starts its countdown while the train proceeds to the station where it stops and, by this time the CL has completed its count down and OP starts its count down for 10 seconds, but the train doesn't move.

(2) I was under the impression that the OP count down would occur once the train first enters the insulated track section, at which time the OP would count down to 0 and the train resumes its travel through the layout and then CL would take over and count down its 5 seconds.

(3) If I am understanding the purpose of the CL, it is to allow the relay to power off to allow the train to continue on its path through the station and insulated track sections.

Mode P4, CL=5,  OP=10.  The module's relay is OFF during the CL interval; the relay terminals COM and NC are connected.  The relay is ON during the OP interval; the relay terminals COM and NO are connected.

Some comments about your report:

1. Nothing should happen when you initially power the track.  If the CL starts its countdown, then that means the module received a trigger.  But given that it starts the Program 4 cycle "all by itself" I'm assuming you know this because the display shows "CL" with a digital countdown of 5,4,3,2,1,0...then display changes to "OP" (and you hear the relay click ON)...and then you see a digital countdown of 10,9,8,...1,0...and you hear the relay click OFF.  And the display then goes blank of says "waiting for trigger" or something to that effect?

2. For Mode P4, the CL intervals starts when the train enters the zone.  You should only see the display counting down the CL count.  You should not have heard the relay click ON.  The relay is OFF during the CL interval.  This blocks center-rail power from reaching the zone; the engine should stop.  When the CL is over, then OP starts (and you should hear the relay click ON).  This now applies center-rail power to the zone and the engine departs the station and should clear the controlled zone within 10 seconds and then gets center-rail power from the regular part of the track.  When OP expires, the relay clicks OFF, center-rail power is removed from the zone...but no matter since the train has already left the station and is getting power from the regular track that is always powered.

3. The purpose of CL is to remove power from the engine it stops at the station for CL seconds.

The program is meant to be triggered when the train enters the zone.  That you are getting the program to start running immediately (with no train in the zone) suggests maybe the isolated outer-rail section is somewhat not in fact isolated from the continuous outer-rail (track common).

Thanks and I double checked the wiring and found one wire out of place.  Having fixed the misplaced wire, the CL does count down once the train reaches the insulated track section where it stops and then trips the relay for the OP to commence its countdown.  Note that the transformer light pulsates during the OP count down and returns to constant illumination at the conclusion of the OP countdown. Once the OP count down is completed I can't get the train to proceed.  Could this be due to the fact I am only using about five feet of track for the test run.  I do however have track power to both ends of the track so I would think there is enough power moving through the rails?

@Butchie posted:

...

Note that the transformer light pulsates during the OP count down and returns to constant illumination at the conclusion of the OP countdown. Once the OP count down is completed I can't get the train to proceed.  Could this be due to the fact I am only using about five feet of track for the test run.  I do however have track power to both ends of the track so I would think there is enough power moving through the rails?

I'm thinking the transformer light pulsating means there is a short between the two track power wires when the OP count down is active.  The train should be leaving the station during the OP count down period.

So diagram above now depicts your 5 ft test track with track applied to both ends.

I wonder if the "NO" wire from the relay module is making contact to the isolated outer-rail?  This could explain the short circuit (transformer light pulsating) during the OP count down interval.  I expanded the "NO" connection in the lower right above; the "NO" wire goes over the isolated outer-rail and only contacts the center-rail.

If the isolated center-rail is mis-connected to the isolated outer-rail, this would explain what you're seeing.

Do you have a meter that measures Ohms?  With nothing on the track and power turned off does the meter indicate a connection between the isolated zone center and outer rails?

I don't have an Ohm meter and if I did, I'm not sure I would know what to do with it.  However, I was able to cure the pulsating light on the transformer by using a different piece of track.  As before, the train travels across the insulated section stops and count down commences for CL, then proceeds with the OP count down but the train does not continue on.  I tried nudging it and once the guide wheels or trailing wheels of engine leaves the insulated section it seems to move forward or backwards.  It appears that no power is moving through the insulated section of track after the OP count down or, the train can't recognize it.  I have included the attached video to better demonstrate what I am referring to.

@Butchie posted:

....  It appears that no power is moving through the insulated section of track after the OP count down or, the train can't recognize it.  I have included the attached video to better demonstrate what I am referring to.

I feel like we're sooo close...yet no cigar. 

The timer module seems to be programmed correctly.  Perhaps semantics, but power should be moving through the insulated secton of track DURING the OP count down.  I hear the relay "click" ON and see the module LED turn ON when the OP count down starts.  Like you say, the center-rail track power is somehow not making it to the isolated center rail.

As insulting as it sounds, can you double-check (yeah, I'm sure you've probably quadruple checked) again that the transformer hot goes to the module "COM" screw-terminal.  And the module "NO" screw-terminal is connected to the isolated center-rail section.

Understood on not having a meter.  No worries.  But do you have a lighted passenger car or caboose?  This can be useful to figure out what's going on since it can be a nuisance dragging an unpowered engine on track!  The idea here is you can roll a lighted passenger car into the isolated zone, it should trigger the CL count down (car's lights OFF), then OP count down starts (car's lights ON).  If this does not occur then must still figure out why transformer "hot" is not making it to the isolated center rail when the OP count down is active.

Please don't give up!  I can see light at the end of the tunnel!

No worries on the "insulting" reference as I have very thick skin !    

I did recheck the connections and the only adjustment made was to connect the COM wire directly to the transformer as opposed to the track lock-on situated at both ends of the five foot track.  The connections are correct.  I tried your suggested lighted caboose idea, which worked.  I also timed the release of the train while the OP was counting down and as suspected, it ran right through the insulated sections without stopping as I believe it should.  Therefore, the only issue is when the train actually comes to a stop inside the insulated track sections, it does not fire back up and proceed.

OK, let's see how thick your skin is.

Is your engine "locked in forward"?  In other words, when you apply track power does the engine always and immediately start moving forward?

It seems to me you said or maybe I saw in video that the engine was going in reverse at some point.  If your engine is NOT locked in forward then this method will not work!  See if this makes sense:

The train enters the zone and stops during CL.  But when OP starts and applies power to the zone, the engine turns on in Neutral...as if you had pressed the transformer Direction button (which removes then re-applies track power).  This sequences the engine's reversing-unit thru the Fwd-Neutral-Rev-Neutral cycle.   In other words, the OP interval is simply powering up the engine in Neutral. 

The engine does start in reverse and then I have to power it down and repower it for forward. I did think of this but could not find any switch on the engine

You are very patient man and your efforts are geatly appreciated.  I have you know, the problem is partially solved .

I got to thinking, what if you use an old "pre-high tech" engine to test the relay and sure enough, the engine entered the insulated section, paused while the CL counted down, and once the OP started its countdown, the engine pulled out of the insulated section, Eureka!

As bit of background, I am in the final stages of getting the layout completed and have not yet set-up the Command Control etc.  I have been using the conventional transformers to test the various sections and loops on the layout with great success.  To get the newer "high-tech trains to work effectively on the loop with relay what will I need to do? I recall you saying that if the train is not locked in forward the relay will not work.  Will I need to program the trains using the Command Control system etc. to only run forward?  I haven't purchased a train or newer ZW for over 10 years.  The ZWs I have are equipped for Command Control, which I had used briefly when I initially purchased them, but it has been so long since I used those components, I can't recall the process.  Except for some pre-war engines and a few post war engines, the balance of my engines are all Command Control equipped.  Thank you again.

@Butchie posted:

... the engine entered the insulated section, paused while the CL counted down, and once the OP started its countdown, the engine pulled out of the insulated section, Eureka!

To which I say, Ta da!   That is, it is indeed possible to use a modern electronic timer module to effect the classic 132 station stop.  Apparently the original nichrome-wire thermal timing mechanism is hard-to-find and/or spendy.

@Butchie posted:

...

As bit of background, I am in the final stages of getting the layout completed and have not yet set-up the Command Control etc.  I have been using the conventional transformers to test the various sections and loops on the layout with great success.  To get the newer "high-tech trains to work effectively on the loop with relay what will I need to do?

...

The relay method of using track voltage to control engine behavior is really a "conventional control" technique.

There have been occasional OGR discussions on how to implement station-stop behavior in Command Control.  It goes far beyond just station-stop.  For example, using a relay to stop a Command Control train in front of a lifted bridge to prevent the dreaded swan dive.  Or using red-yellow-green signals to either stop, reduce speed, or proceed by controlling track voltage with relays.  There are indeed ways to use time delay relays in Command Control to effect fun and interesting actions but there are a lot of details.

I suggest we declare victory on the topic at hand. 

And perhaps think through what type of "automation" or automatic train control features you'd like on your Command layout and start a new thread.

Thank you for the insight o the command control issues and I think I am going to savor this small victory before advancing on to more complex topics.  I have truly appreciated your tenacity in offering your assistance on the relay issue.  Stay well.