I have been looking for information on adding DCS to a Legacy layout. Do you have to change the wiring? It seems this subject on addresses adding Legacy to DCS.
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You may find this video helpful.
Fundamentally, wiring would need to change as you have to run power through the TIU to control engines with DCS, unlike Legacy where you can simply connect power directly from the power source to the track and control the engines by connecting one wire from the Legacy base to the track. Hope I didn't confuse the issue.
Stephen G posted:…. It seems this subject on addresses adding Legacy to DCS.
What?
Sorry if I confused you Engineer Joe but it seems all the information in the forum addresses only adding Legacy to DCS only. Where as I'm adding DCS to Legacy. Thanks for the info ToledoEd and Engineer Joe.
So my conclusion is I will have to rewire my layout for DCS and then add Legacy to it.
Not sure how large your layout is, but you could add the TIU in passive mode and see if that works. This is where you connect wires from the out connections of the TIU to the track to get signal only. The TIU will need external power like an MTH brick.
I can add a diagram when I get home.
Seems there is always a bunch of anxiety when people add the DCS system to their layout.
Honestly, if you buy the latest version, the way I had it wired with 14 gauge wire with feeds every 3 to 4 foot works great for DCS.
I did not have to add star wire feeds at all.
The DCS quick guide had me up and running in 20 minutes. I would purchase a Z750 for your TIU power and you should have zero problems.
Ron is correct. I wouldn't rip out any wiring until you try it as is. Sometimes it works. Some users don't understand why and give up.
I would recommend pulling all powered equipment off the rails for the test. Sometimes a piece of equipment can cause issues that end up getting blamed on the wiring. You could also try adding DCS to just a portion or loop of the layout rather than everything all at once when possible. Having it go to sidings where many pieces of offending equipment are parked can be doomed for failure.
I don't know if this has been posted here before or not? I would separate sidings for what brand or pieces are expected to be parked there. Don't have a main single channel of the TIU's signal dragged down by a siding. Use all the channels possible. Greg from Canada taught me to look at that without stating any brands or problem pieces. He posted (something like) why not use all the channels when you have them right there?
I had my whole layout on a single channel at first. As the layout grew the signal strength started going down in certain areas. So I had to look at what was happening.
I agree with J Daddy and Joe. My layout is 14x14 and is wired the same way I use to wire for conventional; one transformer handle to one loop with power drops. The loops are connected but the center rail is isolated. When I added DCS I just inserted the TIU between the track loops and the transformer. I attached the Legacy wire to one of the grounds on the TIU output side. I set all TIU channels to fixed and powered the TIU with a wall wart.
Basically, if your Legacy system is working well, DCS will work as well. You should not need to rewire anything beyond inserting the TIU into it.
One caveat, you did not indicate the size of your layout. I understand that as your layout gets larger you may have DCS signal issues which require modifications to your wiring. I have never had the luxury of too much space, so I can’t speak to this problem.
If you go with DCS get a copy of Barry’s book, it is a great help.
STEPHENG, I agree with ENGINEER-JOE, I did exactly what you are intending to do. I had a Legacy layout, 7/16, two loops and a yard and then added DCS. The only change I had to make was running the power from my ZW through the TIU to the tracks and the wire from the legacy base to the negative pole on the TIU heading to the track. That was it. Good luck.
I would do as others above have suggested, add the DCS system and try it out first before re-wiring your layout. It might just work as it is and may not be as difficult as it seems? As others have said here, theirs worked without having to do a lot of changes.
If you do have problems, I have found that the addition of blocks made the biggest difference in the operation of my DCS system. Before my current more permanent layout, I had a few temporary layouts using DCS on which I never bothered to add any blocks. They all had problems here and there. They were not large and I was still able to get things working for the most part.
My current layout from 2014 has blocks and I have not had any DCS problems at all since I got it up and running. But, I did things a bit differently, I had DCS first and wired for it using blocks as recommended in Barry's book, then added Legacy a couple years later and it all works well together.
At this time my layout is 16x20 ft. I will try adding DCS first before changing the wiring. Also I am ordering Barry's book today.
Here is a very simple diagram to show how to add a TIU in passive mode to see if it will work without too much rewiring. I'm not sure how your TMCC layout is wired, but I'm assuming you have added power drops off of a bus around the layout to maintain voltage. Ignore the SPST switch; I forgot to delete it for this discussion.
If this does not work, and again assuming you added power drops off of a bus, you can cut the wires at the bus and run them back to a terminal block. Cut the center rail halfway between the drops and now you have blocks.
Again, there are other factors that play into this like how many track sections per block and how many blocks per TIU channel. Enjoy.
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CAPPilot posted:Not sure how large your layout is, but you could add the TIU in passive mode and see if that works. This is where you connect wires from the out connections of the TIU to the track to get signal only. The TIU will need external power like an MTH brick.
I can add a diagram when I get home.
Hello.
I'm checking your information on wiring tiu.could you possibly send me a diagram on wiring dcs wifi system to legacy's tmcc.this is all new to me and would really appreciate your expertise. Thank you.
Brian
You don't add DCS Wi-fi to Legacy. You wire DCS as show above and add the DCS Wi-Fi to it. Rich Foster give a brief description at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdo6CpbFVaI.
Near the end he briefly explains the hook up of the Wi-Fi to the TIU.
Forest
To make things a little more confusing, with a special cable you can hook up your Legacy base to a DCS TIU to get limited control of you Legacy engines through the DCS handheld or Wi-Fi but cannot control DCS engines through the Legacy Base.
Forest
One of Barry’s books covers Wi-Fi. It was easy to install.
Our grandkids like using the I-Pad. I-Phones not so much.
I have the cable and have the whole system hook up.im having trouble trying to add new engines and mainly mth one that are 3.0 brand new.i saw something about software update.the system is brand new but I guessing the software is not.dont know other reason it didn't fine new engines. Any idea.?
Brian
You really should get a copy of Barry's book, DCS Wifi Companion available here from MTH and I think it's also available on Amazon. Print or digital versions. The digital version you can download right after purchase and the print version you can take with you to the layout. Digital version is also searchable. I ended up getting both versions.
Now, RTR, you should know that you can take the digital version to the layout too. All you need is a laptop, tablet or phone, though it’s quite difficult to read on the phone. 😉
I've become a Luddite! I've had the DCS wifi unit since it was released, but I still use and prefer the remote. No laptop, but I finally broke down and traded my 'flip phone' in for an iphone a couple years ago. You are absolutely right about not using that thing to read on, it's much better for music listening. 
Thanks guys
Just paid for a TIU and a handheld device for my layout. Is it true that all three powermasters need to be removed from the layout? Will the layout control system from Lionel be unusable (sensor track, asc2,bpc2, etc)? Also, waiting on Barry’s book. Hopefully will get it before they deliver the TIU.
No need to remove your Powermasters. In CAPPilot's diagram showing the TIU in passive mode, substitute the ZW symbol with a Powermaster. All of your LCS devices will operate.
The diagram shows a single TIU output channel (# 2) being used. The TIU out of the box has channels #2 and #3 set to fixed output. Since you have three Powermasters, you'll have to use three of the TIU's channels and configure the TIU to set fixed output on channels 1 and 4 (consult the manual) (*). The single TIU in passive mode will inject the DCS signals into your track wiring for each of the Powermasters. One TIU channel per Powermaster.
If you are able to run your DCS locos, then all is good. If you have DCS problems, the next step is to use the TIU in active mode. In this case, your three Powermasters feed power to three TIU input channels, through the TIU, and the TIU output channels are connected to the track.
If you still have DCS signal problems in active mode, then its time to consider reworking your layout's wiring. My club went through several attempts getting reliable DCS signals through large modular layouts before rebuilding all modules with a wiring harness that uses *_discrete_* ground and power buss wires for each loop. The "common ground" is connected only at the TIU's ouputs. Crossing tracks and sidings are fully insulated (both outside and center rails) to keep the TIU's output channel signals separated. Track drops are in every 4 ft. module. This has, for the most part, worked well.
(*) I haven't tried a passive TIU with channels 1 and 4 in variable mode. It may work.
Thank you for the advice and info.
Just received my copy of The DCS Companion By Barry Broskowitz. Will be sitting reading and digesting every written word.LOL!!!!
