SOLVED: Thanks to all. ZW-C: How I plan to use the 4 channels / Aux power supplies: Confirmation please?

The DZ-1000 switch machines use very little power while idle, and just intermittently for activation.

You can skip the ZW completely and power the switches with the programmable accessory output of the CW(or any other small transformer) set to the lowest voltage that provides good operation.  If this transformer is used just for switch power, it doesn't even need to be phased to the ZW, both transformers only need to share a common return(if the non-derailing feature is being used).

I have to admit to a bit of disappointment in the ZW-C. I just watched the Lionel instructional video again, and found that, in conventional mode, only channels A and D have, Bell, Whistle, and Directional controls. Channel's B and C only have thtottle up and throttle down.

All this time I have been of the impression that all four channels had all of the controls. I will, now, have three separated track sections, rather than two, as originally planned, so it looks like I will need a third transformer for my yard, unless I incorporate it into my outer loop.

That would mean that I not be able to run my switchet in the yard, will also running a train out on the main line (outer loop).

Any suggestions for an inexpensive 3rd power supply for Track 3 (Yard)?

RWL posted:

I have to admit to a bit of disappointment in the ZW-C. I just watched the Lionel instructional video again, and found that, in conventional mode, only channels A and D have, Bell, Whistle, and Directional controls. Channel's B and C only have thtottle up and throttle down.

Pretty much like the original ZWs which it was based on.

RWL,

   The easy way to have all the control you want is to add DCS & Legacy to your layout and run with the HHRC's.  Further if you use FasTrack and FTCC low voltage Switches, they are completely remote controlled from the Cab2 HHRC.  This eliminates the problem with your ZW-C, by using it for track power only.

There are different problems with a ZW-C however the problems can be worked around by using DCS and Legacy to fully control your layout.  You run the conventional engines thru the TR function of the DCS , giving you all the different functions you want from your conventional engines.  FTCC Switches can be fully remote controlled thru the Cab2 Legacy HHRC, giving you all the control you want on your layout.

PCRR.Dave

I realise that DCS would give me all of that control, but that is a level of cost and complexity that I had syrously hopped to avoid.

One reason That I bought the ZW-C was for the fast circuit breakers in the PH-180's, and for full track control for four tracks, not realising that channels B and C only have throttle control up and down. I really did think that they hsd directional control at the very least.

I am planning the wiring for my layout in, more or less a star configuration, rather than buss system, so that I should be able to add DCS later, unless I am completely off base about that.

For example, how are power blocks handled with DCS? Still with remote switches or thru the DCS system?

I have not wired anything yet, but I have designed and drawn out the wiring layouts, depicting my panel with terminal strips and all.

RWL posted:

Any suggestions for an inexpensive 3rd power supply for Track 3 (Yard)?

How about the CW-80 you already have?

RWL,

   The block method of engineering a layout is done in 10-13 Track joins forming each block, to keep the DCS signal strength high.  The DCS signal degrades because of Track joins.  The Switches if you are using FasTrack can be powered using Track power, as many as 99 of them, actual plug and play, wirelessly controlled by the Legacy Cab2 HHRC.  If you want to use the DCS AIU for running Switches, you must run all the wiring to both the AIU and Switches also, something I eliminated when FasTrack Command Control Switches were invented by Lionel.  

If you are constructing a new layout and plan to run DCS and Legacy in the future, I would recommend the star wiring pattern to construct the layout.  In fact I am building my new Train Room layout in just such a manner.

PCRR/Dave

ADCX Rob posted:

RWL posted:

Any suggestions for an inexpensive 3rd power supply for Track 3 (Yard)?

How about the CW-80 you already have?

I am told, and have read that the CW-80 doesn't put out clean enough power for the MTH locos.

RWL posted:

 

One reason That I bought the ZW-C was for the fast circuit breakers in the PH-180's, and for full track control for four tracks, not realising that channels B and C only have throttle control up and down. I really did think that they hsd directional control at the very least.

 

You could add one of these to each B/C channel...

Dallee also makes a new version of this that is more compact.

George

George S posted:

RWL posted:

 

One reason That I bought the ZW-C was for the fast circuit breakers in the PH-180's, and for full track control for four tracks, not realising that channels B and C only have throttle control up and down. I really did think that they hsd directional control at the very least.

 

You could add one of these to each B/C channel...

Dallee also makes a new version of this that is more compact.

George

Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn't take care of the biggest deficiency, which is the lack of directional control.    

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

RWL,

   The block method of engineering a layout is done in 10-13 Track joins forming each block, to keep the DCS signal strength high.  The DCS signal degrades because of Track joins.  The Switches if you are using FasTrack can be powered using Track power, as many as 99 of them, actual plug and play, wirelessly controlled by the Legacy Cab2 HHRC.  If you want to use the DCS AIU for running Switches, you must run all the wiring to both the AIU and Switches also, something I eliminated when FasTrack Command Control Switches were invented by Lionel.  

If you are constructing a new layout and plan to run DCS and Legacy in the future, I would recommend the star wiring pattern to construct the layout.  In fact I am building my new Train Room layout in just such a manner.

PCRR/Dave

 

 

I just remembered that I have Barry Broskowitz' book "The DCS O Gauge companion", so I will read up on that.

Regarding switches, I was using Fast Track an Fast Track switches, until I fond that some of my locos would not back through some of them, so sold off all of my Fast Track, and have switched to Ross switches and track.

I am still looking for suggestions on a third track control with, at very minimum, directional control.

RWL posted:

George S posted:

RWL posted:

 

One reason That I bought the ZW-C was for the fast circuit breakers in the PH-180's, and for full track control for four tracks, not realising that channels B and C only have throttle control up and down. I really did think that they hsd directional control at the very least.

 

You could add one of these to each B/C channel...

Dallee also makes a new version of this that is more compact.

George

Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn't take care of the biggest deficiency, which is the lack of directional control.    

 

No, it does take care of direction control. Read the text above the middle button. "To Start, Stop or Reverse the Train, Press this Button". The Dallee control does this as well. Reversing a train in conventional mode is a momentary interruption of power. On the ZW, the lever is spring loaded for momentary control.

George

George S posted:

RWL posted:

George S posted:

RWL posted:

 

One reason That I bought the ZW-C was for the fast circuit breakers in the PH-180's, and for full track control for four tracks, not realising that channels B and C only have throttle control up and down. I really did think that they hsd directional control at the very least.

 

You could add one of these to each B/C channel...

Dallee also makes a new version of this that is more compact.

George

Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn't take care of the biggest deficiency, which is the lack of directional control.    

 

No, it does take care of direction control. Read the text above the middle button. "To Start, Stop or Reverse the Train, Press this Button". The Dallee control does this as well. Reversing a train in conventional mode is a momentary interruption of power. On the ZW, the lever is spring loaded for momentary control.

George

OK, I am intrigued.

Now to reiterate, Throttles B and C on the ZW have no Bell, Whistle, or Directional control.

Are you saying that this will also add directional control to those throttles?

If so, it may be the answer.

RWL posted:

George S posted:

RWL posted:

George S posted:

RWL posted:

 

One reason That I bought the ZW-C was for the fast circuit breakers in the PH-180's, and for full track control for four tracks, not realising that channels B and C only have throttle control up and down. I really did think that they hsd directional control at the very least.

 

You could add one of these to each B/C channel...

Dallee also makes a new version of this that is more compact.

George

Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn't take care of the biggest deficiency, which is the lack of directional control.    

 

No, it does take care of direction control. Read the text above the middle button. "To Start, Stop or Reverse the Train, Press this Button". The Dallee control does this as well. Reversing a train in conventional mode is a momentary interruption of power. On the ZW, the lever is spring loaded for momentary control.

George

OK, I am intrigued.

Now to reiterate, Throttles B and C on the ZW have no Bell, Whistle, or Directional control.

Are you saying that this will also add directional control to those throttles?

If so, it may be the answer.

That one will add whistle and direction control. I'm not sure if it does the bell. It's pretty old tech. This one from Dallee, may be a better modern option and will do Bell, Whistle and Direction control. https://www.dallee.com/AC-Sound-Controller-1101

George

The Dallee is pretty expensive. You can also add a Lionel 167 and a Lionel Bell button 610-5906 to get all three controls at a much lower cost.

George

Are you going to be using TMCC to control the ZW or are you planning to just use the throttles.  If you use TMCC or Legacy to control the outputs, the CAB1 can control power on all four outputs and give you Whistle, bell and direction control right at the remote.  Considering lightly used TMCC base and CAB1 set can be found for around $125, you can get the convenience of a hand held remote to run your conventional trains from anywhere in the room (or house) on all four channels with all features available.

Happy railroading,

Don

RWL posted:

ADCX Rob posted:

RWL posted:

Any suggestions for an inexpensive 3rd power supply for Track 3 (Yard)?

How about the CW-80 you already have?

I am told, and have read that the CW-80 doesn't put out clean enough power for the MTH locos.

It is dirty.

Use the Z-500, or a Williams/Atlas 80VA (pure sine wave) for the yard and the Z-500 to power the switches.

RWL posted:

The fourth channel will control all of the, dozen or so, DZ-1000 switch machines.

RWL,

   What engines do you own that will not back thru an 072 FasTrack Switch, even all my Tin Plate deep flange engines back thru them?  If you have engines that take 072 curves they also need 072 FT switches.  

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

RWL,

   What engines do you own that will not back thru an 072 FasTrack Switch, even all my Tin Plate deep flange engines back thru them?  If you have engines that take 072 curves they also need 072 FT switches.  

PCRR/Dave

Pennsylvania Flier, and NY Central Grtand Central Express. 

How about the MTH Railkinhhg Z-750 controller for my third track, which will be my yard?

It has bell, whistle, an directional control, and can be had, relatively, inexpensively. I have the Z-500 brick that came with the remote commander for my SD70 set, so if I could find just the controller, it might be even less costly.

There are, however, some fairly low priced Z-750 sets out there as well.

Well, I found a Z-500 "controller only" on ebay for $18 plus shipping so I bought it, and will pair it up with my Z-500 brick for power/control of my third track.

RWL,

   Good work around for power and control on those channels.  You might consider a Z1000 in the future, eliminating the Brick.  Remember you are adding all the additional cost because the ZW-C does not operate the way you thought it did, on all 4 channels.  Your work around is a good one however.

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

RWL,

   Good work around for power and control on those channels.  You might consider a Z1000 in the future, eliminating the Brick.  Remember you are adding all the additional cost because the ZW-C does not operate the way you thought it did, on all 4 channels.  Your work around is a good one however.

PCRR/Dave

Thanks.

Since I already had the Z500 brick, this work around is costing me a grand total of $25, including shipping cost, for just the controller. My local dealer has the Z1000 controller, separately, but wanted $60 for it. Not bad for the 1000, but way more Than needed right now.

This will leave me with the two center channels, on the ZW, one for switches, and one for accessories. I was going to have to add one more smaller transfomer either way. Three tracks plus switches, plus accessories requires five channels.

Also, between the PH180s, and the Z500, everything has good, native circuit breaker protection. So, in the end, it is sll good.

Oh, yes, I will be adding TVS diodes all around as well.

Regarding the Z1000, it does use a Z1000 brick. Did you mean the Z4000?