18x11 new layout advice/help

@jhl1963  This is a SCARM track layout I was considering for a 13x23 space using 072 curves. I was trying to get to a walk in on that amount of space. You do not have enough room for the double bend using 072. You can save a portion of one section but not a whole 12 inches. 

Based on your 11x18 you can only get this much of a dog bone in. I was assuming you wanted to walk in a bit.  I think you are going to have to look at an around the walls with a lift out in places. I would also consider smaller diameter but not less than 042 if you run passenger cars for additional track to service industries. Smaller would be fine with diesels and freight cars. Doing an around the wall lets you get in an elevation change and decent sidings, yards or passenger terminals.  I would consider a double mainline to show off the big iron. You will need a place to park them. Not fun pulling them on and off the rails. Lots of possibilities in your space,

Many thanks SD, love your layout.

youre going to need to make accommodations to be able to access the AC unit for maintenance

Here's a 3 level single main plan with a small 4-track yard and some locomotive storage on the middle level. Nice long runs, but just a single track between the reversing loops.072 minimum everywhere except for the two inner yard tracks. Grade from lower to middle level is 2.5%, grade from middle to upper level is a 2%. Track heights are 7" apart, so there should be enough clearance to run intermodals, superliners, auto racks, etc. I think it's probably possible to add at least one passing siding by double-tracking one of the grades. You could probably also fit a transfer table in the locomotive storage area if you wanted.

This plan was made in RailModeller Pro is using Ross sectional curves and switches with Gargraves flex making up the straight sections and the few non-standard curves in the yard tracks. I'm happy to make some adjustments (as I have time) if you want some tweaks.

Couldn't help myself! Here's an updated version with the following changes:

• double tracked the mainline on the grade from the middle to upper level which yields a passing siding about 23' long
• reworked the yard, replacing the 4-way switch with curved switches which allowed me to add a 5th yard track and about 40" more track in the yard, and it's a lot nicer to look at
• extended the lower level reverse loop all the way to the bottom where it can tunnel under the yard and middle level
• replaced the 3-way switch in the locomotive area with a Ross 18" 5-stop transfer table

Grades have increased a little bit - from upper to middle level is now 2.8% (outer) and 2.9% (inner), from middle to lower level is 2.6%.

I think I could add an inner 064 or 054 track to the lower reverse loop. It would allow for a third train to be "running" on the layout or provide additional storage for a full train, but it would result in a couple of covered switches. Thoughts?

Thanks! Very kind of you Mike, I will print out and review shortly! Looks great!

@Mike0289  Mike nice ideas for the space.  Are you thinking this can run 2 or 3 trains without having to control the engines - like set and forget?  Covered switches would not be horrible as long as they could be accessed from below.  I have grades under 3% and have no issues with any of my MTH Locos.

@ScoutingDad posted:

@Mike0289  Mike nice ideas for the space.  Are you thinking this can run 2 or 3 trains without having to control the engines - like set and forget?  Covered switches would not be horrible as long as they could be accessed from below.  I have grades under 3% and have no issues with any of my MTH Locos.

You could only "set and forget" a single train on this layout since it's primarily a single track with reversing loops at each end. The passing siding allows storage of another train and operational interest (i.e. trains passing each other), but that of course requires constant attention

I'm really enjoying working on this layout plan!

Another update with the following changes:

• Added a switcher pocket in the bottom left corner near the staging yard
• Double tracked the lower reverse loop (064 curves inside the existing 072) - adds potential for a third train "running" or provides another storage track (almost 30' long)
• Added a pair of industry sidings in the upper reverse loop - could be a lumber mill, mine, etc
• Added baseboards to help get a sense of the different areas in the layout and any potential reach issues

The double tracked lower reverse loop has two of the switches hidden in tunnels, but like @ScoutingDad mentioned, access from below is probably doable.

3 levels is a lot to look at all together - here are images of each level of the layout to help get a sense of the track plan.

Lower level with double tracked reversing loop.

Middle Level with switcher pocket, staging yard, locomotive facility, and beginning of passing siding.

Upper level with passing siding, industry sidings, and upper reverse loop.

That’s cool, but do you realize it takes about 14’ of run to get up and over with an acceptable grade.  Do you have that figured in.

Edit - I could be wrong about that, should have looked at it on my computer first instead of on my phone laying in bed.  Looks cool, I hope you build it.

William 1,

The track software says it's about 270 inches of track and a 7-inch rise, so that agrees with the 2.6 percent that Mike0289 wrote above. If I haven't misunderstood what you wrote (always possible).

David

Looks great Mike, Thank you. I have to think about the operational complexity with the kids. I owe you lunch.

Ok, that sounds good.  I realized I goofed and amended my post.  Go for it!

@Mike0289

I really like your track plans!  I have a similar space I am starting.  I tried to open your layout files.  Which program did you use to create those?  Is it SCARM?

Thanks!
Jason

Jason,

Mike0289 mentioned in his post that he's using RailModeller Pro, an app for Mac. That's what I opened it in to check the grade.

I'm fiddling with a little larger space (roughly 21x24, minus HVAC along one of the long walls, plus a little area under and behind stairs (unfinished basement - run the tracks between studs, perhaps)), aiming for 2-rail O - but might cadge some ideas from here.

EDIT: Perhaps a better way of putting that - so many good ideas on this thread and on the forum in general, few of which I would/could have come up with. And perhaps I'll be able to use some. Thanks to all who offer help and ideas.

David

@NKP Muncie posted:

Mike0289 mentioned in his post that he's using RailModeller Pro, an app for Mac. That's what I opened it in to check the grade.

David,

Thank you.  I totally missed that earlier.

Jason

@jhl1963 posted:

Looks great Mike, Thank you. I have to think about the operational complexity with the kids. I owe you lunch.

Happy to help! I think this layout would be great for multiple operators, but might be tougher to manage if the kids just like to let 'em rip

I'm happy to try to make some adjustments as I have the time - let me know if you have any ideas!

@jrose609 posted:

@Mike0289

I really like your track plans!  I have a similar space I am starting.  I tried to open your layout files.  Which program did you use to create those?  Is it SCARM?

Thanks!
Jason

Thanks for your kind words, Jason! Glad to hear this plan might be useful for you as well

Another small update!

• Colored graded track sections green
• Added text boxes near graded sections with grade percentages
• Adjusted position of industry sidings on upper level
• Adjusted benchwork in top left corner to accommodate a possible lowered section with a canyon and possible waterfall/river/etc with a large, dramatic trestle for the upper level reverse loop to cross
  
  

I've been working with Mike0289  (who is a a gentlemen and an artist) on my revised space which is 16x8 - here is the latest. Open to input.

• Ross switches, Ross sectional curves (some cut curves represented by flex, but are standard radii), Gargraves straight/flex for straight sections
• Minimal use of flex sections - only 2x true flex sections in the under table storage yard to maintain spacing for the sidings
• primary mainline: folded doggone on lower & middle levels, 072 minimum with 080 or greater easements, ~84' long with ~3% grades
• secondary mainline: single track w/reversing loops at each end on middle & upper levels, 042 minimum, ~44' long with ~3.6% grade
• primary and secondary mainlines interconnected on middle level
• locomotive facility: connected to primary mainline and accessible to 072 min locomotives, Ross 18" 5-stop transfer table, 2x lead tracks, 2x 34" storage tracks aligned with leads, 5x 20" storage tracks, 1x 13" storage track
• Under table storage yard: connected to primary mainline and accessible to 072 min locomotives, 12" below tabletop, ~3% grade down, 3x sidings all 15'+ in length (167", 171", 173") with 3.75" spacing

Full Layout

Lower Storage level

Base

Middle Level

Upper Level

3D

Thanks for your kind words, @jhl1963! This has been a really fun plan to put together and I think it would really feature your large 072 minimum locomotives well! I'm also curious to see what the experts here on the forum think of the plan

Great looking layout.

I would love to see the file for this last iteration. I would like to take  a look closer at the lower level and how that ties in to it all.

Thanks

Eddie in FL

Thanks @Eddie in FL for your kind words!

The connection between the base and the lower storage is via the curved switch inside the tunnel in the upper right corner of the base. See below

I'll give @jhl1963 the option to share the RailModeller file or not since it's his plan at this point

Make sure you can reach everything. JohnA

This has come a long way since April.  WOW  !!!   Kind of curious about the middle level and the turnout arrangement. Some of those look a lot less than 072 dia - 042 dia according to the list?.  I would love to put this on SCARM and run the train simulator to get an idea on how the trains would flow. You are lucky to have a craftsman like  @Mike0289 draw up this plan. Nice idea having the main avoiding the smaller curved mid level in order to access the loco facility. And great use of the transfer table.  Jeff

@Mike0289 posted:

Thanks @Eddie in FL for your kind words!

The connection between the base and the lower storage is via the curved switch inside the tunnel in the upper right corner of the base. See below

I'll give @jhl1963 the option to share the RailModeller file or not since it's his plan at this point

Mike, feel free to share it - I've actually just finished clearing the room, picking up the plywood this weekend and ordering the final pieces needed from Mianne. I'm planning on the turntable version.

Here's the alternate version that @jhl1963 mentioned. Transfer table is swapped for a 34" turntable, under table yard is removed, and a small mostly hidden 3-track yard is added on the right side of the base level.

@ScoutingDad posted:

This has come a long way since April.  WOW  !!!   Kind of curious about the middle level and the turnout arrangement. Some of those look a lot less than 072 dia - 042 dia according to the list?.  I would love to put this on SCARM and run the train simulator to get an idea on how the trains would flow. You are lucky to have a craftsman like  @Mike0289 draw up this plan. Nice idea having the main avoiding the smaller curved mid level in order to access the loco facility. And great use of the transfer table.  Jeff

You're right, Jeff. The secondary mainline is tighter with an 042 minimum. @jhl1963 shared all the specifics in his post earlier in this thread

Thanks a lot guys. I will be looking at it this weekend when I get my Mac set back up.

Eddie