Thanks guys. The track is assembled correctly, see in the videos how the Hudson hops over the screws.
Since this man’s 18005 will NOT traverse the T rail track, this court shall not dispute it.....case dismissed...
sorry Dwayne, as I said before and as the Hudson said.....the answer is no.....have the drivers machined, or look for alternative ways to hook that track together....beautiful Hudson BTW....one of my favorites!..
Pat
Man, that video is weird. If the bolt heads are tightly tucked under the head of the rail, against the web, what part of the wheel is contacting the bolt? Certainly the flange doesn't tuck itself under the rail head? I don't understand the geometry, apparently.
Hey Pat.........Thanks!......... Maybe now they'll believe us.
@Dwayne B posted:Hey Pat.........Thanks!......... Maybe now they'll believe us.
Apparently not....if you tell some of these guys it’s raining outside, they gotta go get wet to believe you....😉.....
now, if you’d like to entertain a really cool fix, and you can do a chassis swap at home.....I do have a Commodore Vanderbilt chassis with Scullin disc drivers ( the bolt on type) that would be easily machined to ride over that T rail.....then you’d be the coolest kid on your block with a J1 on scullins........☺️...I’ll get her over that T rail!...
Pat
Dwanye, thanks for posting the videos of the engine running on your T-rail track. I never doubted that your engine was hitting something at the rail joints, it was just a question of finding out exactly what the problem was.
The driver wheel flange is hitting some of the bolt heads (not nuts) that are sticking out too far beyond the inside of the rail head. I note that in your video this only happens for some of the bolts, while for others the engine is fine, as it should be. The problem can be resolved by ensuring that no bolt heads are sticking out too far from under the rail head so that the flange can hit them.
From my experience, there are 3 possible causes for this. First is that the bolt head, which is kind of square, is not lined up properly with the railhead before tightening. I don't think this is the problem with your track, but it always helps to make sure. The second picture posted above by Ricky Tanner shows the edge of the bolt head on the left-hand rail at an angle to the rail head, which is the way the bolt head usually looks after tightening. Make sure to line up the edge of the bolt head with rail head and push it under the rail head as far as it will go before tightening the bolt so that the bolt head will seat under the rail head. The bolt head usually turns somewhat as you tighten the bolt, but then locks in place since the square bolt head will only turn so far.
If this doesn't solve the problem, now it gets a bit trickier. The second reason is that not all T-rail bolts are the same. Some have nice thin bolt heads, others are rather thicker, maybe up to twice as thick as the thinner ones. The bolts with the thinner bolt heads will almost always sit nicely under the rail head, but the bolts with thick bolt heads can be difficult to use, and it depends on the track itself, which gets to the third reason below. You can either swap out bolts with a thick bolt head for ones with thinner bolt heads, or you can grind down the thick bolt heads so that they don't stick out beyond the inside of the rail head and reinstall them.
The third reason is the rail itself. Unfortunately not all T-rail rail is the same. Most rail seems to have a nice width to the rail head, but some rails have a narrower rail head which makes it more difficult to get the bolt head to seat under the rail head without sticking out. Using the bolts with the thinner bolt heads usually works for these rails.
Your setup is almost there. Inspect each bolt to make sure that none of the bolt heads are sticking out past the inside of the rail head far enough so that a wheel flange can hit the bolt head, and change out those that do. The issue you are experiencing can be resolved, and your engine will run fine over all the joints, not just some of the rail joints as it does now. It took me some time to do this on the layout that I had with over 400 feet of track and 26 switches, but it can be done.
Yes, it would be nicer if assembling T-rail was just a question of putting the bolts in, putting the plates and nuts on, and tightening everything and you're good to go, but from my experience it's not quite that easy unfortunately.
A different solution would be to only use early T-rail that had the rail joiners for all three rails, before Lionel introduced the nuts and bolts assembly, but that track can be hard to find. Or you can just use rail joiners like you have for the center rail on all three rails and leave the bolts off entirely, but that doesn't have the same look, and you would still have the holes in the running rails.
As a side note, be careful if you are planning on buying any switches since the rails on the movable switch points are die cast, and susceptible to zinc pest like the die cast switch motor covers on earlier switches, but that's another story.
The 1990 remake of the 700E, ( 18005 ) was not built to get over this track.....we have to go back to the original 700E for better understanding, then move forward from there, this way, you guys will get a clearer picture of what’s going on here.....the 700E’s from the 30’s were built as a fine scale model to exacting NMRA standards INCLUDING WHEEL GAUGING .....flanges are are as close to scale as possible ..this locomotive’s birth is the whole reason for T rail track in the first place.....now, fast forward to 1990....we’re gonna reproduce the iconic 700E right??.....not exactly....how many track choices were there in 1990?.......well, pretty much good ol’ tube track, and Gargraves??....yes??...maybe one or two more??....and Gargraves is pretty much glorified tube track....not many people could put their hands on actual T rail .....so if you’re going to market a locomotive for the masses ....it better traverse what’s readily available....so now you have a 700E with flanges from a 763, but built to the numbers of the original 700E ....I’ve read tons of threads with guys trying to push these pups through tight curves that they complain about flanges scraping and binding like mad....set a modern 700E on any track, and you’ll see that the side to side “slop” is much tighter than other locomotives, including relatives like all the “semi scale Hudsons” ......long story short, and there’s tons and tons of threads about this,...although built to the tolerances of the original, they had to put toy like flanges on these things to make them marketable.....otherwise, the only folks that could operate them would be T rail guys ( that and the 2 rail guys that swap them over)
if the OP wants to get this thing over that T rail, he’s gonna have a fight on his hands.... from a collectors stand point, and maybe that’s a mute issue in this day & age, grinding on original and very hard to find T rail joint bolts is an option, but good golly, that’s tedious...no??.....now, I’ve never used the slip on rail joints on the outside rails on T rail, but I’d see a problem given the nature of the gauging on 18005, the OP would be right back in the same soup he’s in now......hopefully y’all will see, the 18005 is kinda unique ******* .....on a side note, the C&O yellow belly shares a lot of the same characteristics as the 700E remake, although there’s some differences in wheel designs, like the center driver with the traction tire, but I’d be willing to bet it uses a lot of 1990 700E tooling, and perhaps gauging, so be careful, I’ve never run that loco on T rail, so I can not comment on that retrospect......
Pat
Thanks again everyone for all your help!.......I really appreciate it! I will try all the suggestions everyone has made and hopefully will get the hudson running smoothly down the vintage t-rail.
Before I forget,there was a thread a while back on T-Rail.
https://ogrforum.com/...ionel-t-rail-track-2
Also,Before the famous 1949 Lionel showroom layout was built,the previous 1936 showroom layout,also known as "The T-Rail Layout" existed. There are numerous photos showing quite an assortment of late Lionel Prewar trains running on it,not just the famous 700EW Hudson.
Lastly, I vividly remember a fellow named Paul Fischer recreated the Lionel T-Rail showroom layout. It was in "The other magazine" It was beautiful and the reason I looked into possibly doing the same. He ran EVERYTHING he had on it and the photos proved it. I believe there is a video too.
Have a safe weekend everyone!
Harmonyards, your're right that it was tedious, and a learning experience. Not too many people to ask about how to make T-rail work.
I built my T-rail layout years before the 1-700e was released. I needed to make all of these adjustments to get my 763s, Hiawathas, 226s, and so on to run on the layout. These are all engines that Lionel ran on their prewar T-rail showroom layout, and I thought that if Lionel did it, then I should be able to do it too. Once I figured out the need to really fine tune the track to avoid problems, it worked out fine. I was probably fortunate in that I had acquired more than sufficient T-rail and hardware so that it wasn't an issue to get to a layout that worked.
As a result, when the 1-700e was released, I just put in on the track and away it went with no issues without any further changes on the layout, but I only used the layout for a couple of more years before dismantling the T-rail and going to a different track. I just thought that if it worked for me, it would work for Dwayne too.
With all of the great track systems available today, I wouldn't go back to T-rail, but I can understand the attraction of such an interesting vintage track system.
Dwayne, I have about 250 pieces of T Rail track on my layout and I have not had a problem with any engine on it and I also have Legacy connected. You may have some repo nuts and bolts. Several people tried to have them made or bought what they thought would work. I mention this because it appears the engine does not waddle on every section. I suggest you look at the inside part of the bolts to see if they are consistent. Some people also purchased some of the T Rails without holes and when they drilled them they were OFF a little which is all it takes for the wheels to touch and waddle . I purchased a lot of T Rail from a TCA member that said he would send me the nut and bolts later. It was brass junk. Very disappointed in him over that. It was not even painted black. I would look at that before I started some of the very intrusive suggestions made. Not that they are not good but looking at nuts and bolts is much easier. I have ran the JLC Challenger and a lot of newer engines without a problem but your engine is not one I own. Good luck and happy results. I actually purchased some switches from Paul Fisher and they are great. I have a couple of extras from him.
