2243 single motor F3, increase pulling power.

Traction tires require grooved wheels. You are better off finding another 2243 or adding a second motor to the existing one.

Might try adding weight.

Sell the 2243s and buy a dual motor unit.

The 2383 is the twin motor version of the 2243. If you have an affection for the 2243, you can re-power using the 2243 shell with the 2383 chassis. This will keep the MagneTraction feature intact.

For a real stump puller, find a 8851 chassis and transfer the silver pilot & horn components to the 8851 chassis. This will give you 8 wheel drive with traction tires and the weight of a postwar diesel.

Guys I already have 3 two motor/Magnetraction F3 ABBA sets (2343, 18117, 18130, see attached pictures). All I really want to do is have the 2243 single motor unit pull a dummy B unit and 4 modern 16 inch aluminum cars without slipping so much. Lionel has the truck from the last run of conventional classics F3s that has both Magnetraction and two traction tires, part number 6308332740:

Do you think this truck would get me to my goal of having the 2243 pull it's dummy B unit and 4 modern 16 inch aluminum passengers cars? I know if I pair my 2243 with a postwar GP7 they can both pull 7-8 aluminum passenger cars no problem. Adding another 2243 is an option, but kinda overkill for what I want to do.

Lou1985 posted:

Adding another 2243 is an option, but kinda overkill for what I want to do...

That would be the same pulling power as a 2383 chassis.

If you MU another 2243, this would be a good option as you could sell the extra 2243T(B unit) for almost as much as an AB set as the B unit is in high demand to make the 2383 an A-B-A set. There was no 2383 B unit offered, the 2243 is an exact cosmetic match.

Lou1985 posted:

Guys I already have 3 two motor/Magnetraction F3 ABBA sets (2343, 18117, 18130, see attached pictures). All I really want to do is have the 2243 single motor unit pull a dummy B unit and 4 modern 16 inch aluminum cars without slipping so much. Lionel has the truck from the last run of conventional classics F3s that has both Magnetraction and two traction tires, part number 6308332740:

 

Do you think this truck would get me to my goal of having the 2243 pull it's dummy B unit and 4 modern 16 inch aluminum passengers cars?

Anything you can do to get some tire traction will help.  The MPC single motor F3 w/ tire traction does a pretty good job for me on the O-27 layout. I put the powered unit in the rear of the ABA pulling the train & pushing the dummy B & A units.

Add the 2nd motor.  It will run more smoothly, more slowly because of more power pulses per inch, and maintain speed better over any voltage drops or slight grades you might have on your layout.  See Gunrunner John's thread about adding a 2nd motor to his phantom.  The E-unit can handle 2 motors no problem.

Pulling power / tractive effort is based on adheisive weight.  Why throw away half the weight on unpowered wheels?  On a real F-unit, all the wheels were powered, that's why the Santa Fe used F-units on its premier trains through the rugged Sierras.  Lionel didn't start doing single motor until the cost-cutting of the mid 1950s.  Also, rubber tires wear out and create problems.  If I could rewheel all my locos to eliminate the tires, I would.

Ted S posted:

Add the 2nd motor...

Unfortunately, the 2243-38 chassis is not keyholed to allow for the installation of the second motor & truck.

I think Rob has given you excellent advice.  Another thing that you could do, in addition to adding the new truck, is to go to your local hobby store or automotive store and find stick on weights.  Hobby shops or craft stores may have them as part of the boy scouts' soap box derby car prep.  They have sheets of weights that can be cut and often have an adhesive backing.  Take the top off the diesel and put as many as will comfortably fit.  You may even be able to line the shell a bit but I would want to keep the weight as low as possible.  (Also be careful to pick up the diesel from below by the fuel tank after adding weight as sometimes that nose screw is a bit stripped after so many years.)  Similarly, automotive wheel weights -- the adhesive type -- can also be used.  The goal is to improve traction (with the new truck) and put more weight on those wheels.  Good luck! 

Well, someone replacing a postwar magnetraction power truck with a modern era tire traction would be a switch.  Periodically Gryzboski offers early modern era F3 power trucks on EBay at a very reasonable price. If you contact them, I think they would sell you one direct.

Note that your original truck has sintered iron wheels. The early modern era power trucks have ZAMAC wheels and if I recall correctly, some plastic gears.

The only F3 I have from that era is a Preamble Express. I have not run it in a long time. From what I remember it ran just fine.

C W Burfle posted:

Well, someone replacing a postwar magnetraction power truck with a modern era tire traction would be a switch.

Much better traction on Atlas track.

ADCX Rob posted:

C W Burfle posted:

Well, someone replacing a postwar magnetraction power truck with a modern era tire traction would be a switch.

Much better traction on Atlas track.

Atlas track has a ferrous material deficiency making it unable to take advantage of Magnatraction technologies that predate the Atlas design.

Before I made purchases for other hardware, I would at least check out the strength of the magnetraction in your unit. Take a loose straight track, turn the truck on your F3 to one side, then adhere the magnetized wheels to the track. The truck should easily hold the track suspended. If it fails that, the magnetism within your truck has faded over time. I would also compare the magnetic attraction in your F3 to some of your other engines to get a comparison (using the same, repeatable test.) I have done this and find that you can tell really quickly when the magnetism has failed - add weights, use a scale, or just any repeatable test of your choice to "feel the strength."

If it is weak, there are folks on here that can help get the magnetism rejuvenated - I don't know how much that costs, how well it works, or even which parts of the engine you would need to send, etc., but I would at least inquire.

George

I would use the truck mentioned above with the traction tire.  You will almost double the pulling power.  I use one on a 1996 GP9 and it will pull about 12 cars easily...

Marty

The Magnetraction is the 2243 truck is fine. It'll lift a piece of track without issue. It'll pull a dummy B, 8 scale SFRD refrigerator cars, and a caboose without issue. It's the passenger cars that cause problems. It spins on starting up and takes quite a bit of throttle to maintain speed. I may try adding a bit of weight in the fuel tank area first and see if that helps before changing the power truck. It is the cheaper option after all.

The truck I linked to has both traction tires and Magnetraction. So double the help.

ADCX Rob posted:

Ted S posted:

Add the 2nd motor...

Unfortunately, the 2243-38 chassis is not keyholed to allow for the installation of the second motor & truck.

Yup. The only single motor F3 you can easily add an extra motor/power truck to is the 1954 horizontal motor Texas Special. The vertical single motor F3s need two trucks, as the power truck has no space to mount a pickup roller.

Richard Cuozzo posted:

Sell the 2243s and buy a dual motor unit.

If the added weight doesn't work out, and you're attached to the 2243 shell, you could do what I've done a few times. Buy a F-3 A unit with dual motors, and just swap shells. Very simple solution, and obviously a whole lot easier than messing with adding a second motor to the existing chassis, and probably not a whole lot of cost difference from trying to find another 2243 in good shape to run in tandem. 

breezinup posted:

Richard Cuozzo posted:

Sell the 2243s and buy a dual motor unit.

If the added weight doesn't work out, and you're attached to the 2243 shell, you could do what I've done a few times. Buy a F-3 A unit with dual motors, and just swap shells.

I've heard that's the best solution!

One more thought... when was the last time you cleaned and lubricated the wheels / axles on your passenger consist?  This might also include the pickup rollers (although there are varying schools of thought on lubricating the roller axles.)

I understand your frustration, possibly run the single motor powered A backwards, the power unit pulling the train with the dummy A in the lead. I have done this before with success.  The 2353 has dual motor magne-traction and is a great set.  Good luck, those post war diesels are nice.

leapinlarry posted:

I understand your frustration, possibly run the single motor powered A backwards, the power unit pulling the train with the dummy A in the lead...

Unfortunately, a 2243 dummy A unit was not made, he has a powered A and a dummy B.

I have two sets of 2243s and they originally did not pull the best.  However, I have lubricated the trucks, internals and did a good cleaning on the armature of all old dirt/grease build up.  That alone made a lot of difference in the pulling power.  I have done the same with many of my PW engines and they not only pull better, they also coast with power cuts and draw less amperage.  One thing, what I lubricated with is called "Prolong".  It is a slick lub with no Teflon or other PFTs.  I find it, still, at some auto parts stores, or you can order from Amazon.  It really is the best I have found, also use as intended in my cars.

Jesse         TCA  12-68275

Ted S posted:

One more thought... when was the last time you cleaned and lubricated the wheels / axles on your passenger consist?  This might also include the pickup rollers (although there are varying schools of thought on lubricating the roller axles.)

The train is modern aluminum passenger cars with fast angle wheels and needle point axles. But I have cleaned and lubed them in the past month or so and they roll smoothly.

Basically at this point I'm trying to get the 2243 to pull the train with less slippage. It's a "I'd rather use what I have than by another locomotive situation", especially since I already have 2 twin motor warbonnet F3s. I'm going to try adding some weight. If that doesn't help I'll try getting a truck from Lionel with traction tires and Magnetraction. Otherwise I may just have to pick up another 2243 and wire them together.

texastrain posted:

I have two sets of 2243s and they originally did not pull the best.  However, I have lubricated the trucks, internals and did a good cleaning on the armature of all old dirt/grease build up.  That alone made a lot of difference in the pulling power.  I have done the same with many of my PW engines and they not only pull better, they also coast with power cuts and draw less amperage.  One thing, what I lubricated with is called "Prolong".  It is a slick lub with no Teflon or other PFTs.  I find it, still, at some auto parts stores, or you can order from Amazon.  It really is the best I have found, also use as intended in my cars.

Jesse         TCA  12-68275

I just serviced the 2243 the other day. I lubed/oiled the trucks, re-greased the bearing in the motor, and cleaned the brushes and commutator.

Oh, and I also keep my consists, freight and/or passenger, lubricated with the same Prolong product.  The main problem I have is with the cleaning of the rails more often after lubricating all the cars and wiping the tracks to maintain good traction.  But, I believe that is something we all deal with....

Jesse

I run my 1954 TS AB F3 with 4 Williams 15" AL cars with no sweat. I run it with 2 PowerHouse 180 bricks via a TPC 400 in TMCC conc. mode.

What are you using for a transformer?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I run my 1954 TS AB F3 with 4 Williams 15" AL cars with no sweat. I run it with 2 PowerHouse 180 bricks via a TPC 400 in TMCC conc. mode.

What are you using for a transformer?

Postwar Lionel 275W ZW. More than adequate. 

Did a test. I assembled a test train that consisted of a F3B and 4 MTH 16 inch passenger cars (modern equivalents of the 2500 series cars with better trucks). I gathered 3 single motored diesels: the 2243, 2328 GP7, and a modern 6-18573 GP9. All have a single Pullmor motor and strong Magnetraction. They have all been recently serviced and lubed. Both the 2243 and 2328 could get the train moving with much wheel slip but required at least 14+ volts to keep the train moving. Increasing voltage while the train was moving at 14 volts (i.e. going up to 16 or 18 volts) resulted in wheel slippage before a speed increase. The 6-18573 on the other hand was a whole different story. It got the train moving at lower voltage (10-12 volts) with virtually no wheel slip. In creasing the voltage resulted in the train just going faster instead of wheel slip like with the 2243 and 2328. The 6-18573 pulled the train with ease, which is odd considering it has the same motor/drive train (single vertical Pullmor and Magnetraction), NO traction tires, and weighs the same as the other two locomotives. All the wheels on each locomotive were clean as well. Perhaps there is some wear in the trucks on the postwar locomotives? Maybe the wheels are just "slick" from wear over the years? I find it odd that the virtually identical modern Lionel GP9 performed so much better.  I may have to try swapping the power truck from the 6-18573 to either the 2243 or 2328 and see if it improves the performance of those two locomotives. 

Here's how I added a second motor to my Phantom locomotive, it made an amazing difference.  I think the F3 shell should have enough space to do something similar.

Improving the Lionel Phantom Locomotive

Adding a second motor hole to the 1955 and up vertical motor frame wouldn't be too hard. The issue is that two new power trucks would be needed. The postwar single motor F3 truck is the same as the GP7/GP9/EP5 truck in that it has no pickup roller provision. 

Bullfrog Snot?