Improving the Lionel Phantom Locomotive

Doesn't one of the trucks have the cherry switch Cam setup?  How is that overcome?

Neat project.  I've always liked the Phantom although I don't have one.  Are you at all concerned the boards may be incompatible with the amount of power the two motors will draw and voltage their sweet spot will be in/  I don't know much about these motors.  They look big, old-school, and perhaps much hungrier than newer can motors. 

Yep, but I can put magnets on the wheel with a reed switch or use my motor speed sensing circuit to know when it's moving.  However, I have the Phantom III RS4 board, and it may not need the cherry switch, we'll see.  In any case, it's a minor issue, I'll get it working, I"m not letting that stop me!

Lee, I'm using the ERR AC Commander, it's rated for two AC motors, and I've used it in several conventional upgrades with no problems.  I thought about can motors, but since I already had all the parts for this upgrade, I figured that would solve the basic issue of no traction.

John, I look forward to reading more on your project. I too want more traction in my Phantom, it's horrible.

I also put a bunch of lead in the nose (1/2 lb+), that helped some.

It's also a power hungry pig.

It would pop the breaker on my Z-1000 with all the other stuff on the layout idling.

Nothing else ever popped that breaker (barring derailing), even my Imperial Big Boy pulling 58 cars including my PW stuff. (That consist filled my 9 x 33' main loop)

Second problem; It runs fast or not at all. I suspect the AC commander will help this as well. I have been tempted to gut it and use my PS2 upgrade kit on it but I would lose the sounds, don't like that idea.

Frankly, probably just the added weight of one of those big motors with their heavy magnetic core would do wonders for the loco's traction.  Two motors will make it awesome, I expect.  

Nice idea.  Fun project.  

"What talent lurks in the hearts of men?  That Phantom knows!"

Great work John!  I love a custom build!  Can't wait for another update...  

Wrapped up work for today.  I couldn't resist hooking up the motor and seeing how it runs.  It's a puller now, what a difference!  I hooked it up to my track cleaner, my usual test subject, and it can start out slow and pull it without any slipping at all!  It's truly like a different locomotive, I can't imagine it having any issues pulling the cars now!  The ERR AC Commander in 100 step mode seems very smooth, I think this is a major update to the engine.

Now I can't wait to get the audio stuff in and it back together, I'm a happy camper!

To Marty's point, I did think of a small issue with the cam switch replacement.  All of the axles on this now have magnatraction, so that may preclude me using the original idea of magnets and a reed switch.  I'll probably have to drive it from the motor voltage if I need it.  If I need a toggling voltage, I'll probably put a little oscillator circuit across the motor field and drive the RS input with that.  We will overcome!

I'm heading over to Harry's tonight, I'm going to run it on the large layout and see if it'll pull a bunch of cars around the whole layout.  This seems like it'll be the silver bullet for the Phantom.

Marty, the cam switch turns out not to be an issue.  I put the RS 2.5 chips in an RS4 board, and also dug out my Phantom III RS4 board.  Both ramp up the RPM in response to the serial input without any external cam switch.  Not only is it a non-problem, I have two different voices for my upgrade!  I think I'll put the Phantom III in first, it has a couple extra sounds with the cab-talk keys.

Neat project and great job.  My son has been looking to add the phantom to his collection so your project will stoke his fire to upgrade.  Look forward to your updates!

John

What tool did you use to cut the hole in the chassis?

You are quite the mechanic John! Looks very professionally done as does all of your work! Great idea!

I also have the first version. Seems like I waited for YEARS for the passenger cars.

When they were coming out with newer Phantom versions, Lionel then made them with a traction tire. I sent for several of the newer trucks. I bought a second Phantom ( version 1 ) engine. I replaced the non-traction trucks with the traction ones. I then did a push - pull set up with an engine at front and rear.

It accomplishes what you've done but may have cost more. The 2nd engine cost me $168.00. I forget what the trucks cost. It was an easy swap.

Other than the dull interior lighting they move swiftly around my Atlas track.

Believe it or not, I used a Dremel with a fiber cutoff wheel.  I marked a pattern for the hole, then rough-cut it with the Dremel and then finished it with a file.  I have a nibbling tool for metal, but the chassis was too thick.  I have the "industrial strength" Dremel 4000, it cut through the 16ga chassis steel like butter, I was suitably impressed!

I considered the truck replacement, but after looking at the options, this seemed like the easy route.  I got the motor and truck for free, and since I had a leftover AC Commander that's likely to rot in my parts box, I figured I could use it.

For anyone contemplating this upgrade, after closely looking at the LCRU2 & RS 2.5 board set, if you separate them, they would fit in between the motors, so if you have an old GP-9 powered truck around, the upgrade can be very cheap.

FWIW, I took this up to the club layout with Atlas track, it has no problem pulling a dozen diecast cars or five passenger cars around the layout.  The AC Commander also gives it excellent low speed performance, I was very impressed with how smoothly I could slowly run. 

I've already done some lighting enhancements to the locomotive, it got a red MARS light, LED headlight, and I even lit the turbine inlet with flickering blue LED's.  Now that it's clear that I'll be able to run this more, I'm going to add some cool lighting effects when the horn is blown, there are side light lenses that do nothing right now, that will change.  Then I'll look into some passenger car lighting upgrades.

Now that is the sort of project I like to see!  Really good work, thanks for sharing.  

John, let's see a video of the new Phantom!  

Nice work!  I second the request for video.

Nice work GUNS!!!  You da MAN!!!  As other have said, gotta see the video.  Keep up the good work!!!!

Thanks, guys!  When I finish up installing the sound and the rest of the wiring, I'll crank out a video.  I have to slide it aside for a day or two to work on some other stuff, but it'll be done in the next few days for sure.

I'm still thinking of what lighting effects to put into the rear side light slots.  Since the AC Commander has a convenient logic output when you blow the whistle, it will be easy to trigger the effects, just have to come up with the actual lighting controls.

 I checked the power draw with the dual motors and the AC Commander.  It's not a power sipper, but at speed it was drawing less than four amps pulling the cars, so it's not terrible.  The cars account for a bit over an amp of that (until they get their LED upgrades), so the locomotive was pulling a bit less than three amps, that tapered off to a bit over two when it was at speed and not accelerating.

If any one is interested in doing this type of up-grade, I have some geep trucks with magnatraction and 1` axle has traction tires.  It will pull about 12 cars or more on Atlas track.  Contact thru email in profile...

Marty

Marty, you also need the old chassis to cut the motor mount off.  I suppose you could fabricate it, but it sure was easier to just pull it off an old chassis!

John, perhaps I can make a dimensioned pattern from my existing Phantom, then print a piece with my new 3D printer. This would be a good stress test.

Thanks for documenting power consumption. I knew it was higher than my other engines, didn't know details. Looks like an LED lighting upgrade will help.

PS, I suggest a light chaser effect down the side for the Whistle lights. Perhaps backwards for a wierder effect.

And if you get a bell output how about from the middle out both ways.

Russell, the slot is pretty small, about 5/8" long on each side.  I don't know how much of a chaser I can fit.  I am thinking more along the lines of two different colored LED's slowly pulsing in a somewhat random pattern.  I'm trying to get some ideas of what to add, I might use one of the Arduino Nano boards I have as a simple way to do this task.

If you have the original Phantom, you can see the slots near the rear top, they are part of the plastic for the rear light and shell posts.  I guess they thought the anemic backup light would shine when it was on, bad read, it doesn't!

The deed is done!  I put it all back together, it sounds great, runs great, and can easily pull it's four cars now!  I haven't done my horn effects lighting yet, but I'll figure something out.  I used the Phantom III card in it as it had a few more sounds, and the RPM ramps up without any switch, so that was a non-issue.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the mod.  I turned into what was a shelf queen as it couldn't get out of it's own way into a usable set.

Cool project for a cool train.  Like I said, the Shawdow may know evil, but the Phantom knows talent.  A very well done project.  

Have you thought about getting more cars to pull now?

John....PLEASE post a video as soon as you get the lighting effects done!  I have this set and you have inspired me...and are going to cost me money too!..

Alan

Thanks guys.   I may look around for more cars now that it's a real locomotive and might actually be able to pull them.

Actually Alan, you can do this upgrade for minimal expense.  If you keep the RS 2.5 board and the LCRU2 and just rearrange them, it would have been cheaper.  I had all the stuff to upgrade to ERR, and lots of RS4 boards, so I decided to upgrade.  The only added complexity with the older electronics is you'll have to figure out a truck mounted switch for the motor RPM trigger, with the R2LC & RS4 boards, that was taken care of painlessly for me.

I'm trying to come up with some neat lighting for the sidelites near the rear of the locomotive that are triggered by the horn, still thinking on what that would look like.  Any ideas on what would look cool there are gratefully received.  The little windows are 1/8" tall by about 7/16 long, so probably only two or possibly three LED's would fit.  I'm thinking of something like slowly varying intensity in a couple of colors when the horn blows.

Yes!  This looks like a really cool project.  I probably wouldn't do it my original but you never know if you come across one of the after issues.  Thanks for posting this.

I had no compunction about doing it to my "original" as it was pretty useless as a locomotive without it.   It still looks cosmetically exactly the same as before, all the work is on the inside.  I can't see these increasing drastically in value in my lifetime anyway, they're still selling on eBay at pretty reasonable prices.

This really isn't about your sidelites, but I have been thinking about this for some time, the problem being what loco, and the Phantom is the perfect one for it.   I recently bought a saber saw with one of those laser pointers that draws a red line out ahead of its cutting path.  It not only really helps you cut straight, but it looks cool.  

Something like that, a bright red line shooting out and pointing down the track from the Phantom's nose every time the horn is blown, would be cool, in a futuristic loco.  Not sure where you get an inexpensive laser that draws a line rather than a dot, but . . . 

Actually, I have such a laser in my drawer, don't know how small the operating part of it is.  I have a laser level and tape measure, I got it years ago from a friend of my wife's that sold Avon produces of all things.  The box is even labeled Avon.

In looking, I'm not sure where I'd put it on the Phantom, the nose is pretty busy as it is, it has the headlight, MARS light, and the turbine inlet that I put a couple of flickering blue LED's in.  The lower pilot skirt has space, but not much depth without interfering with the front trucks.

Interesting idea, I'll have to look around for a compact solution like that.

Edit:  I didn't have to look far!

Laser Line Module

John...crosshairs?

I really like the pulsing idea too.

While it wouldn't have "the near dual motor GG-1 or FMTM power", and would require as much, or more work (filler plate on the front), I have to wonder if just swapping the power truck position would improve it enough. Two motors on four cars seems excessive.

Any plans for expanding the number of Phantom cars in the train GRJ?

 I might be up for just an engine to pull the Marvin the Martian Earth Disintegrator, and Porky's Instant Martian cars should one become available one day.

Cool, I ordered one of those as well!

I'll have to see if I can fit one of these into the pilot skirt without affecting the appearance much.  One of these could be triggered by the smoke output, which is currently unused.  Kinda' like a laser cannon!

I thought about swapping the position, but since the motor was already in place, and I had a second one, I just went for the max.  Since neither has traction tires, I figure having all wheels powered is probably a good idea.

I did just pick up a Phantom I coach off eBay just a couple hours ago.  There was a baggage car as well, but I'd like another coach or dome car.  I'll keep looking...

There's a couple of Phantom locomotives on eBay, so now's the time to grab them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL...;hash=item3f4836888c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel...;hash=item20f767c468

Some unsuspecting kid will get his eye shot out by the laser. 

You'll shoot your eye out!  You'll shot your eye out.

I'll use it wisely, only when I see a target of opportunity coming into range.

Great job on the modification. You truly can "rebuilt it, make faster, stronger and better than it was before".

In the case of the Phantom locomotive, making it faster and stronger wasn't hard, almost anything would have done it!

Yes, John but you did it first and was nice enough to share with all of us. I would complete lost with this type of rebuild. It made my honey do list item number 135.