Base 3, Cab 3, Legacy Sounds?

@F19Pacific posted:

Hello,

First post- apologies if this is in the wrong spot or already been covered; I was unable to find an answer using the search function.

I have a base 3 I am running off of the Cab 3 app and I am driving myself nuts trying to figure out the rhyme or reason as to what legacy sounds will play when I hit the crew talk and auxiliary sound buttons.. sometimes a sound will just repeat, and what’s bugging me the most is I swear I’ve heard sounds once I’ve yet to hear again! Is it just a random cycle of phrases, or is there a method/secret menu I am not seeing? I just want to hear my F19 Pacific say happy Halloween again lol. If I can get it to say it on command, even better.. Thanks in advance

They are random.  I have to try sometime for several times to get "This is the Polar Express" on my Berk.  Just the way it is.  Sound will vary though when in motion vs. at rest.

@MartyE posted:

They are random.  I have to try sometime for several times to get "This is the Polar Express" on my Berk.  Just the way it is.  Sound will vary though when in motion vs. at rest.

Well that’s a bummer.. I suppose I can record it myself in Bluetooth mode 🤷‍♂️

@F19Pacific posted:

Well that’s a bummer.. I suppose I can record it myself in Bluetooth mode 🤷‍♂️

Only if it's equipped but if it's Legacy it isn't.

Here is the most important thing to takeaway: READ THE MANUAL- specifically the manual for the engine you are trying to run.

I'm saying this- because we've had more than a few new folks trying to expect the control system manual (CAB3) to explain specific behaviors or sounds and controls of engines.

The ENGINE and it's firmware are what decides what plays. This is why expecting the control manual to tell you is where people keep getting stuck. The control system sends standard Legacy commands. The engine and it's firmware and sound card may have special sequences, or expect specific conditions- example moving, slowing down, stopped, plus specific key sequences to activate commands. Because those are ENGINE SPECIFIC- you must read the ENGINE MANUAL to find them out.

Again, let me repeat this for the new folks. Legacy- while it is a more enhanced command set than TMCC- does not have the function or specific command to play a specific dialog.

It is the engine and it's firmware- taking in a couple of possible conditions or states- as well as specific command sequences or button presses- that the firmware in the engine, interprets at a specific command (possibly not even in the Legacy command structure).

@Vernon Barry posted:

Here is the most important thing to takeaway: READ THE MANUAL- specifically the manual for the engine you are trying to run.

I'm saying this- because we've had more than a few new folks trying to expect the control system manual (CAB3) to explain specific behaviors or sounds and controls of engines.

The ENGINE and it's firmware are what decides what plays. This is why expecting the control manual to tell you is where people keep getting stuck. The control system sends standard Legacy commands. The engine and it's firmware and sound card may have special sequences, or expect specific conditions- example moving, slowing down, stopped plug specific key sequences to activate commands. Because those are ENGINE SPECIFIC- you must read the ENGINE MANUAL to find them out.

Again, let me repeat this for the new folks. Legacy- while it is a more enhanced command set than TMCC- does not have the function or specific command to play a specific dialog.

It is the engine and it's firmware- taking in a couple of possible conditions or states- as well as specific command sequences or button presses- that the firmware in the engine, interprets at a specific command (possibly not even in the Legacy command structure).

Thank you for the response. I did realize it is motion/speed specific, and the manual is generic in what the context of the dialogue will be (i.e., nowhere does it actually say “happy Halloween” will play randomly at medium speed).
Seems silly I am in over $5k to this power supply/engine/command base/remote and the phrases are all randomized like one of my 2 years olds amazon toys 😳 I hope they update that in the future- or at least include a list/reference guide with how to achieve specific lines of dialogue

@F19Pacific posted:

Seems silly I am in over $5k to this power supply/engine/command base/remote and the phrases are all randomized like one of my 2 years olds amazon toys 😳 I hope they update that in the future!

What's silly is assuming what you'll get before buying.  Vernon is correct.  Read the manuals, and do so before shelling out the big bucks.

In fact, given that the manuals are occasionally wrong or published quite late after the release of a new model, don't buy anything unless you see it in person, or you have the word of a trustworthy friend or fellow hobbyist who's used the product, or seen it in use in person.

Unfortunately that's how this hobby works and, largely, aways has.  Those updates you mention are not gonna happen.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

What's silly is assuming what you'll get before buying.  Vernon is correct.  Read the manuals, and do so before shelling out the big bucks.

In fact, given that the manuals are occasionally wrong or published quite late after the release of a new model, don't buy anything unless you see it in person, or you have the word of a trustworthy friend or fellow hobbyist who's used the product, or seen it in use in person.

Unfortunately that's how this hobby works and, largely, aways has.  Those updates you mention are not gonna happen.

Mike

Trust me, I watched countless hours of YouTube videos and tutorials, testimonies, etc. what a privilege if you live in an area you can try all of this stuff before you buy it, or have any kind of mentor to consult before buying! I don’t, and I am still learning all of that, and the next closest club is in another town.

Maybe so, but my understanding is Lionel employees peruse this forum.  I put my money where my mouth is, and those are features I would like to see 🙂 Doesn’t mean it will happen, but that’s how progress works. Thanks Mike

I think the question has been answered pretty well, but as the designer of the original legacy dialog behavior, I'll chime in. Dialog evolved over time, and since my time at Lionel ended almost 10 years ago, I may not be up to date on any changes since then.

For original TMCC, the numeric <2> played a burst of unintelligible radio chatter, which was preceded by a 2-3 second delay. There wasn't enough sound storage for more. There may have been some special case engines or rolling stock that had a unique piece of themed dialog, but as was stated earlier, you won't learn about this in the control device manual, it would be unique to the engine or rolling stock.

Why the delay? It was Neil's idea to have talking caboose as part of the <train>. Pressing the <2> immediately played the caboose, and 2.5 seconds later the locomotive "answered." If you did not have the caboose, you were stuck with the 2.5 second delay anyway.

Fairly early, the <7> was introduced as the voice of the tower. Originally this was probably just a single phrase giving the train clearance to depart.

At some point, the rail sounds hardware and memory storage were increased. Other train sound manufacturer's systems included intelligible dialog, but with the still limited storage in general, there was a lot of repetitive phrases. So Lionel wanted to stop using the static burst and put in understandable dialog.

I wanted dialog to tell a simple story, to add play value The story was :

• not going yet
• ready to go
• wow, just started going
• still going
• almost there
• have arrived

The Legacy manuals describe this story arc. It is conditioned on the presence or absence of the aux key as well as the motion state of the engine (including the state "recently moving")

The choice of <7> vs <2> key was used to determine of the tower spoke first or the engineer. Repeated denial of clearance by the tower sometimes caused a crabby/sarcastic acknowledgement by the engineer.

I could go on and on about this, but I'll leave it there for now. Yes, within a single part of the story there is no way to predict if the voice is "Roger that, clear inbound" or "copy that dispatcher, pulling in now." Sorry!

RAILSOUNDS Rudy,

Please contact me off list as I lost you email contact.

Ray Bedard

Rudy,

My email is: TCZEPHYR@HOTMAIL.COM

RAY

As an example, a recent 2024 steam manual from the Triplex. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...on%20Triplex_web.pdf

Only recent Legacy and Visionline engines support "Sequence" mode. Yet another reason to read the specific engine manual to see if your engine and it's firmware systems even supports this mode.

Example a Stationsounds Diner car- another fairly recent manual https://www.lionelsupport.com/...tionSounds%20Car.pdf

Yet another example of a very car specific function that not all cars have:

VS the while moving state

Great information here. Thank you Vernon and Rudy!

oh yeah, i forgot entirely about sequence mode!

Ahh yes Timmy.  You love him or hate him but Oh Boy!  What fun!

As far as the sounds being random, my comment pertained more towards the Halloween and Polar Express "quotes".  They seem very random of whether you get "All Aboard" or some other miscellaneous phrase.

Sequence mode is fun especially when guests are over.