Atlas vs Ross Switches

I have a medium/large layout that is primarily Atlas track.  I use both Atlas and Ross switches.  The atlas switches I have are #5, #7.5, and the double slips.  I use Ross when I need something that Atlas doesn't have (like the Ross large curve switches or their double crossovers). 

I can't say that I've had derailment issues with the Atlas switches (aside from operator error).  I use DZ-2500 switch machines on both my Atlas and Ross switches (I like the smaller size and the non-derailing feature of the machines).

Atlas track and Ross switches are the same height and rail profile, so its fairly easy to connect the two (I shorten atlas rail joiners to connect to Ross switches.

Ross switches do seem to be "beefier" electrically (soldered connections between rails whereas Atlas uses screws that sometimes come loose).  I beef up my Atlas switches by soldering wires between the outside rails and also soldering wires between the hot rails (eliminates most reliability problems).

Both the larger Atlas and Ross switches will pose challenges for some locomotives that have shorter distances between pickup rollers.  These problems are solved using relays in conjunction with the switch machines.

I'm not a fan of the Atlas switch machines.

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.

At this point I am not super invested in switches. I have only 2 Atlas 7.5's.

Going with Ross switches I will save a little money which is good because my track plan does have a few switches in it. I have read mixed messages when it comes to Atlas switches. I have first hand knowledge as a local friend is having a heck of a time with his Atlas switches, and then I have read that this is only an issue with older Atlas switches and I know for a fact this gentleman has a mix of used and new Atlas switches. Which ones are giving him issues I do not know.

Right now I am leaning towards Ross switches and DZ switch machines from the get go, just for the cost savings..... a few dollars a switch adds up when you need 12+ switches.

I would rather not have to buy all Atlas switches and then change out the switch machines... for the cost factor.

I see Ross switches come in a variety of sizes I would need to research to make sure I am ordering the correct ones. I figure I would stay with O72?

Edit.... after reading a bit on Ross' website it looks like I would use a 101 left and right hand switch for most of my layout. With a dz1000 the switch is 134$ as apposed to $175 for an Atlas O72 switch.

If these are indeed compatible with Atlas track.... it seems to be a win win as it comes to cost and reliability.

Tom

Ross also has O-80 and O-96 switches, O-96/O-72 curved switch, 4-way switch, etc., that might work better in some places than an O-72.

When I built my layout Atlas track and switches were not yet on the market. So, 38 years ago I used Gargraves Phantom Rail track and Ross Custom switches. I powered them with Tortoise switch machines that mount below the table so you don't see any switch machines. While the DZ machines look ok, the Atlas machines don't. From an aesthetic point of view matching Ross switches and Atlas track might look ok, but I would use Gargraves and Ross together. In addition, Ross switches are guaranteed for life with repairs free by just sending them to Norwich, CT. American made and American supported. Same with the Tortoise switch machines, made here in IL. The variety of Ross switches is unmatched and the owner, Steve Ross Brenneisen is the initial sponsor of the OGR Forum.

I'd go Ross... wait... I did!  The new Atlas switches are way better than the old ones, but I'd still go Ross.

Atlas track and Ross Switches……a winning combination on our modular layout for 14 years…..

In the yard is Gargraves and Ross Switches

Also, cannot beat Ross’ service….

Peter

@Godale03 posted:

As some of you know, I am working on building a layout. I have designed the track plan using Atlas track and switches however I have been advised by my local shop that I should consider using Ross switches instead. I have a friend who has Atlas switches on his track and he is working through various derailing problems. Specifically with his big steam and some tenders with more than two trucks, as well as some larger rolling stock.

I have only purchased 2 new Atlas 7.5 switches for a passing siding, but they are new in box and I can return them. I have purchase Atlas track for the first loop of track. The more I looked into Ross switches I found that they are indeed a few bucks cheaper than Atlas switches, even with the DZ1000 switch machine installed.

My question is this.... Would it be advisable to use Ross switches with my Atlas track? I would save a bit of money and it sounds like I wouldn't have to deal with the reliability issues that I have read and heard about. If so would I still just stick with the O72 switches, which is the majority of the switches in the track plan, or would you guys recommend another size? I have locomotives as small as a Legacy S2 switcher to the MTH Premier Big Boy and all engines in between. I have spoken to the gentleman that is helping with the track plan, and we can rework it to go with Ross switches if need be. If you need any more information just let me know and I will happy to fill in the blanks. Thanks!

Tom

As best I recall, you're building your layout in the nicely finished 2nd story of a fully enclosed tractor shed/building.  If you plan to keep the second story isolated from the first story by a door, continually heated in cold weather and maintain the humidity below perhaps 40% RH, then this point I'm about to make may not matter.  However, if there is the possibility of drastic temperature swings or high humidity, then please read on.

As you may know Atlas track's rail is made from a solid nickel silver alloy, perhaps partly why it's more expensive.  This is resistant to corrosion from high humidity and condensation.

Ross rails however ( which I use and think is a great product ) are made with tin plated steel.  This may be fine if kept in a well conditioned space and not cleaned with abrasives.  However, I have seen some used Ross and Gargraves track with actual rusted rails.  Food for thought.

That is definitely something to consider. My space is fully insulated, cooled and heated and I run 2 dehumidifiers during the summer months. I try and keep the humidity at or below 50% during the summer but sometimes it will creep up to 55ish. Most of the time I am able to control the humidity ok. Never any big temp swings however. My temps in the winter are around 61 and I turn the heat up while I am there and down when I am not there. In the summer I keep the temps between 72 and 75 again... I turn down the AC when in there and up when I am not. Would the conditions I described not be ideal for Ross?

Also, I am working on reducing the number of switches on the layout plan currently as a cost cutting measure. It is cheap to add them while your still in the virtual environment. In the real world however, I need to be realistic. If you feel my current environmental conditions are not the best, I can stick with new Atlas switches.

Tom

I guess it depends on how cold it gets in the train room overnight and whether you have a door separating the upstairs from downstairs /outside air.

I can tell you from experience, on warm humid mornings following a cold night, I avoid opening the roll-up door and mostly keep the person door closed in my unheated shop, because if I do leave the doors open, condensation quickly settles on exposed metal surfaces.

With these precautions, adjusting your heater (maybe set to perhaps 55 degrees overnight) running the dehumidifier, and only cleaning Ross /Gargraves with non-abrasive cleaner, you may be fine.  These recommendations are somewhat speculative.  Maybe Steve at Ross or others with similar set-ups can advise more.  I was mainly posting here to add some key information about the layout location and rail materials differences to this discussion.

@SteveH posted:

I guess it depends on how cold it gets in the train room overnight and whether you have a door separating the upstairs from downstairs /outside air.

I can tell you from experience, on warm humid mornings following a cold night, I avoid opening the roll-up door and mostly keep the person door closed in my unheated shop, because if I do leave the doors open, condensation quickly settles on exposed metal surfaces.

With these precautions, adjusting your heater (maybe set to perhaps 55 degrees overnight) running the dehumidifier, and only cleaning Ross /Gargraves with non-abrasive cleaner, you may be fine.  These recommendations are somewhat speculative.  Maybe Steve at Ross or others with similar set-ups can advise more.  I was mainly posting here to add some key information about the layout location and rail materials differences to this discussion.

I understand, and thank you for the input. All things need to be considered for sure.

A bit more information for clarity. The entire building is temp controlled. The first and second floors. I have mini splits up stairs and downstairs and the entire building is insulated. I have a garage door and a man door on the lower level to the outside. The garage door is the highest R rating I could buy and although it doesn't completely seal tight, it does seal really well. I am not loosing my heat or AC. The downstairs does run a few degrees cooler in the winter however. Just as the upstairs runs a little hotter in the summer. I have the mini splits set to hold the temps so there is generally not huge swings in temps. Again... I do have to deal with some humidity in the summer but it rarely gets above 60%. One of the downsides to mini splits is they don't do a great job with humidity. So that is why I run a dehumidifier upstairs and down. I definitely need to find out if these conditions will be ok with Ross switches before I make the choice. That is why I chose Atlas track to begin with... that way I didn't have to worry about the humidity if it ever got high while I was away. The Ross switches seem to be the best combination of reliability and price... and they seem to be more readily available.

Tom

As GRJ mentioned, there is a difference between the newer and older switches. I bought a bunch of used 036s and while I have made them all work there was definitely some problem solving. Atlas machines work but DZ are more reliable and don't fail (at least not for me). Wiring is much better on the new Atlas switches but I still connect power to all three legs. Derailing usually means you have to add a shim (I use the stainless steel strip that you can find inside most car wiper blades) to help align the engine wheels entering the frog.

Scott would you be able to post a picture of where you place the steel strip on the switch?

@Scott J posted:

As GRJ mentioned, there is a difference between the newer and older switches. I bought a bunch of used 036s and while I have made them all work there was definitely some problem solving. Atlas machines work but DZ are more reliable and don't fail (at least not for me). Wiring is much better on the new Atlas switches but I still connect power to all three legs. Derailing usually means you have to add a shim (I use the stainless steel strip that you can find inside most car wiper blades) to help align the engine wheels entering the frog.

That's good to know that the newer Atlas switches are better. Of course now that I have done a bit more research I have found that the Ross switches are about $35 cheaper than the Atlas switches. However I am still trying to figure if my space has the right environmental conditions so that the rails don't rust.

Tom

@Godale03 posted:

That is definitely something to consider. My space is fully insulated, cooled and heated and I run 2 dehumidifiers during the summer months. I try and keep the humidity at or below 50% during the summer but sometimes it will creep up to 55ish. Most of the time I am able to control the humidity ok. Never any big temp swings however. My temps in the winter are around 61 and I turn the heat up while I am there and down when I am not there. In the summer I keep the temps between 72 and 75 again... I turn down the AC when in there and up when I am not. Would the conditions I described not be ideal for Ross?

Also, I am working on reducing the number of switches on the layout plan currently as a cost cutting measure. It is cheap to add them while your still in the virtual environment. In the real world however, I need to be realistic. If you feel my current environmental conditions are not the best, I can stick with new Atlas switches.

If you're keeping the temperature within a 20 degree swing and the humidity in check, I can't imagine you having a moisture problem.  In my previous house, I had a huge basement and the humidity would swing from around 30% in the winter to 60% in the summer, even with two dehumidifiers running.  The temperature could get as low as 50F in the winter and 75-80F at a peak in the summer.  However, I had no rusting issue with anything for the 30 years I lived there.  The space was fully insulated and a true basement without any totally exposed walls.  My current house has a walk-out basement, and my temperatures and humidity are similar to the previous house, but I don't let the low temperature get lower than 60F or higher than 80F.  I now have heat and A/C in the basement, so I can keep things in check.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you're keeping the temperature within a 20 degree swing and the humidity in check, I can't imagine you having a moisture problem.  In my previous house, I had a huge basement and the humidity would swing from around 30% in the winter to 60% in the summer, even with two dehumidifiers running.  The temperature could get as low as 50F in the winter and 75-80F at a peak in the summer.  However, I had no rusting issue with anything for the 30 years I lived there.  The space was fully insulated and a true basement without any totally exposed walls.  My current house has a walk-out basement, and my temperatures and humidity are similar to the previous house, but I don't let the low temperature get lower than 60F or higher than 80F.  I now have heat and A/C in the basement, so I can keep things in check.

Thank you for the info. It sounds like as long as my conditions stay the way they are, I should not have an issue. I appreciate the input. I feel much more comfortable going with Ross switches now. Thank you.

Tom

@R2unit posted:

Scott would you be able to post a picture of where you place the steel strip on the switch?

Am at work now but will post a picture tomorrow!

Here is my take on Ross and Atlas   We have 336 switches on our layout   75 of them were Atlas and all had to be replaced for reliability and connectivity issues  So right now we have all Ross switches with DZ1000 switch motors  We tried the DZ2500 but for a larger layout they will not work out  The problem with the DZ2500 is that 50 switches get connected to a Data wire driver if you want TMCC control over them   Its nice as long as you dont have a problem because one flaky motor affects 50 and its pretty hard to figure out which is the flake   Also you can not manually throw a DZ2500    The DZ 1000's are the way to go and they can be connected for non derailing with a simple wiring install.

As for the Atlas switches - the motors are a pain in the neck and have many issues  The early Atlas switches had fine wires connected the rails across the frogs that would melt from extended use and cause dead spots  Overall the Atlas track has connectors between the track that spread with use and cause dead spots   The middle rail has a black coating that doesnt conduct electricity as good as the outer rails   We used Atlas track on our subway system and I am sorry we did  The subway was originaly over 1000 feet of mainline and there was a 20 track yard that was 60 feet long

My opnion is that Ross Switches are the best as are Ross premade curves   The straights we used Gargraves in most places for cost savings

What Ben said. Go with Ross.

I have 36 Ross switches and love them. They blend perfectly with Gargraves track however, if I had all Atlas track I would go with Atlas switches simply to keep the perfect blend of rails. This is of course assuming the Allas switches have been improved from the originals.

Is there a way to tell the Atlas switches that were problematic, some years ago as I recall? If there is a method to discern them, that'd be very helpful for people who buy from train shows, NOS, etc.

@Paul Kallus posted:

Is there a way to tell the Atlas switches that were problematic, some years ago as I recall? If there is a method to discern them, that'd be very helpful for people who buy from train shows, NOS, etc.

I seem to recall that the UV sticker on the blue outer box is one clue. I've been told it doesn't appear on the old switches with the fine wires.