259E restoration project

great project! If it was me...one of those 259Es would be getting that six drivered motor....

You will have a great time restoring your 259E. It is one of my favorite restorations. Dr Tinker has most of the parts ( DLaughr@aol.com ) and they are easy to work on, even taking out dents...Most parts clean up well, I soak the disassembled parts in Draino to remove the original paint wash them good and prime with a good auto primer. For my finish coats I use Krylon, Dupli-color or any good spray paint. I bake the parts at 200 degrees for 30 minutes, it gives a nice smooth finish. I have shown pictures of my 259E's before but here they are again....The gray 259 I have had since I was a kid and it was pretty banged up. My last project for my 259 set is a restored 602 baggage car....I even got one of my engines to smoke...I have one more 259 in my box of things to do but i am waiting to find some 610's and a 611 to start the project.....  Good Luck

From the photos you have posted, the most complete looking one is the BLACK one, which would be my first choice for restoration.  Now it depends on which time frame you are looking at, meaning what year it was introduced.  To give you some background on the series of production of the 259E, would start with 1933, as the first year it was sold.

The 1933-34 loco was Gloss Black, with Red Spoke drive wheels, and had a 259T tender.

The 1934 version was also Gloss Black, and came with three different tenders, which were the 259T, 261T, or 262T.

The 1936-1938 version was Satin Black, with either the 1689T or 2689T.

In 1936, it also started with Gunmetal Gray, and carried through to 1938-39.  It was paired with either 1689T or 2689T.

In 1937, it also came in Flat Black, with a 1689T or 2689T.

The above references are from Greenberg Guide Lionel Trains, 1901-1942, Vol. II, 0 and 00 gauges.

It comes down to whether you want to keep things original, to Time Frame and correct color, for the appropriate year.   As stated above, I would restore the Gloss Black 259E, hunt for one of the correct tenders, that goes with a Gloss Black. I would save the Gunmetal Gray, as another project for later, as the Gray tender would match that time frame.  I would also clean up the 6 wheel motor, and test run it (even without an E unit) to get it running, and sell it.  You could also fix the 6 wheel motor, and use it on another later project, that would use the 6 wheel motor.  The Gunmetal Gray loco, looks to need too many in parts, at this time, and I would shelf it for now, and work on the Black 259E.

You make the choice, as to which is easier to finish, and Good Luck!!

Once you decide which route you are going to take, of either Black or Gunmetal, I can provide you with the correct consists, of the various Outfits, that were offered.  I have Dave McEntarfer's Guide to Prewar Sets, Vol. IV, with all the listed Sets available, with the Set numbers, and what cars belong with each Set.  Some of the consists are in the 600 series cars, 800 series cars, and including 1700 series cars, available

Thanks Gene and Doc, you've given me a lost to think about and I'll have some response to both sets of comment.  I am going ahead with the gunmetal project as it has the working motor and tender.

But, before going further, looks like I should get the Greenburg Guide.  I see two voume 2's on Amazon.  The first edition (hardcover) I can get for $20, and the other (paperback, incluidng OO) is at least $50.  Do you know if there is anything about the more expensive edition that would better serve my information needs ?

If you are referring to the Paperback which is 0 & 00 gauges, Vol. II, that is a better one to get, as it covers quite a bit.  It is the one I refer to most of the time.  Not clear on the hardback edition Volume 2, as the one that shows up the most, is the paperback version.  I will have to check Amazon to see what you are referring to.  The one I located on Amazon is the one with the 752 Union Pacific (brown & Yellow locos on the cover) which is the most recent issue, from 2001, which is listed at $50.  That is a good price, considering it is out of print.  Greenberg will be updating that book, but the price for a new issue will be $100, and isn't available yet......

Here is the Amazon link:  https://www.amazon.com/Greenbe...1901-1942%2C+vol.+II

Gene, I was just reading your note again.  You suggest using Draino - why not a paint stripper from the hardware store ?  But, more importantly, why do the stripping rather than spray new paint over the old ?  I'm really an ignorant beginner about things like this.  I'm inclined to use Hennings' paint that is meant as a match fror the actual Lionel dark gunmetal.

One item for which I'm not sure about color is the headlight.  I'm using the smokebox front from the black locomotive to get the casting.  It seems to be a brass colored coating on an ordinary metal casting.  What color was it on the 1938 Lionel locomotive ?  I could just sprau gunmetal on the whole smokebox front except for the class lights, but don't wany to if that's not correct.

Hope others who know something about painting will throw in their thoughts.

Doc, in regard to your suggeation about the six wheel motor, I've compared it with my 1666 and early 2026 - same motor.  Going to look at using it with a 1666 body that doesn't have a good motor.  Or might pair it with a good E-unit and sell as a motor.

Later I'll think about how to get the most value out of the black engine, or its parts.  My objective is to maximize cash return to buy stuff I really want - not trying to add prewar to my collection.  But in buying Lionel stuff from the late 40's, one gets prewar Lionel, and American Flyer.

   Stripper of choice for me is aircraft stripper spray from autoparts, or the citrus strippers; which work surprisingly well

Old paint is usually fine to recoat once sanded. Its the chips and imperfections that are the real concern because they may show through. So often it is easier to begin from scratch with clean bare metal. (There could also be rust under the paint you can't see yet...just maybe.)

Either way, wipe well with a solvent to clean oils away and keep your cleaned fingers off the thing. Use a hanger, or perch it on tiangle or round dowels.(they have less contact area than a flat.)

Thin coats. 1st a "tack coat"; a misting. Let it set up slightly (two to twenty minutes depending on paint) This helps hold the next slightly heavy coat from runs. Repeat until done. Try on sheet metal scrap at the same time, but keeping two coats ahead on the scrap vs loco so you know what to expect.

My 1st choice for stripping paint is “Castrol Super Clean”, 1 gal. Purple jug( degreaser).  It is safe and non toxic compared to other strippers.  I use a cheap plastic spackling pan (rectangular) that rolling stock fits into.  Use the Super Clean full strength and let soak about 4-6 hours.  Use an old toothbrush, and scrub all the paint off.  Rinse in warm water and let dry completely.  You chose the Gunmetal to restore, so my choice of paint is Krylon Ultramaxx primer (gray), followed by automotive Dupli-color BGM0344 Gunmetal Gray.  It is the closest shade I found to original.

The Headlight isn’t brass or gold, but cast silver colored Headlight.  The class lights can be removed, and reinstalled after painting later.

Your idea with the 6 wheel motor is a good one.  Having a 1666 body already makes it a good choice.  That 6 wheel motor was used on quite a few 2-6-2 locos, with exception being the drive wheels (normal counterweighted vs. Baldwin drivers).  I have two spare motors that came out of a 1668 Torpedo loco.  The motors can be wired direct without E units, to run in forward only, if need be.  The modern replacements are the 100-25 E units, which are common.

I don't know what you have for rolling stock, to follow the 259E, but the choice of the Gunmetal, puts your loco into the late 1937-38 period, which would have been included in about 6-7 sets.  You have the choice of set complements: Set 232E-two 607 & 608 in Girard Green with dark Green roofs; Set 6504E- 804, 831, 807 in Aluminum, Green, Red colors; Set 6505E- two 603, 604 in Red w/Black roofs; Set 6600W- 651, 654, 657 in Green, Aluminum, Red & yellow trim; Set 6629- 2717, 2719, 2722; Set 6705- with 1717, 1719, 1722.  These are the consists of the above Sets, if you want to make up a CORRECT set.  The choice is yours.

One step I forgot to mention, about pre-painting is that I typically give all the parts a quick wipe down of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol (drug store brand), using cheap latex  gloves.  This is just to keep natural hand oils from the raw unpainted parts.  Arrange the parts, give them all a prime coat, and then thin coats of the finish choice of color.  I have had great results on tinplate, plus many die cast loco bodies, plus rolliing stock that needed to be restored.  Good luck.

TeleDoc posted:

My 1st choice for stripping paint is “Castrol Super Clean”, 1 gal. Purple jug( degreaser).  It is safe and non toxic compared to other strippers.  I use a cheap plastic spackling pan (rectangular) that rolling stock fits into.  Use the Super Clean full strength and let soak about 4-6 hours.  Use an old toothbrush, and scrub all the paint off.  Rinse in warm water and let dry completely.  You chose the Gunmetal to restore, so my choice of paint is Krylon Ultramaxx primer (gray), followed by automotive Dupli-color BGM0344 Gunmetal Gray.  It is the closest shade I found to original.

The Headlight isn’t brass or gold, but cast silver colored Headlight.  The class lights can be removed, and reinstalled after painting later.

Your idea with the 6 wheel motor is a good one.  Having a 1666 body already makes it a good choice.  That 6 wheel motor was used on quite a few 2-6-2 locos, with exception being the drive wheels (normal counterweighted vs. Baldwin drivers).  I have two spare motors that came out of a 1668 Torpedo loco.  The motors can be wired direct without E units, to run in forward only, if need be.  The modern replacements are the 100-25 E units, which are common.

Thanks for the suggestion about the motor.  I'll make this one a forward only.  I've already got more motors than E-units.

TeleDoc posted:

I don't know what you have for rolling stock, to follow the 259E, but the choice of the Gunmetal, puts your loco into the late 1937-38 period, which would have been included in about 6-7 sets.  You have the choice of set complements: Set 232E-two 607 & 608 in Girard Green with dark Green roofs; Set 6504E- 804, 831, 807 in Aluminum, Green, Red colors; Set 6505E- two 603, 604 in Red w/Black roofs; Set 6600W- 651, 654, 657 in Green, Aluminum, Red & yellow trim; Set 6629- 2717, 2719, 2722; Set 6705- with 1717, 1719, 1722.  These are the consists of the above Sets, if you want to make up a CORRECT set.  The choice is yours.

CORRECT sets isn't something that concerns me.  I recall as a kid in the mid 40's making up trains as I liked them - like the railroads do - never mind what set they came in.  Fortunately, an early postwar collection that I bought happened to have some 2600 and 3600 cars.  I've got seven of them in various stages of repair.  So I'm all set to play 1938 except now I need to get a 2657 caboose.   But now I'll need a 2682 if I want to replicate my own first train set.  In 1942 my Christmas present was a train with the 1664, 2679, 2677 and 2682. 

I began with the idea of collecting only 1948 catalog items, expanded to 47 - 49, and .. - this is getting out of control !!

Sounds like you’re pretty much set, with the restoration needing to be finished.