26x17 Hi-Rail Layout - VIDEO UPDATE #5 May 2014

Looks good, but I do see some issues:

1. Since your duck under loop goes under the roundhouse level- they will be pretty low, or your roundhouse will be pretty high.

2. There is a lot jammed against the right wall, and access to these switches for derailments or service will be hard. This is the yard lead.

3. The yard(green)lead is also the grade to the upper level? That might not work too well.

4. The splayed yard on the left looks a little awkward, just from a prototype standpoint. I guess that will be industries?

Any way, good luck!

PS: This is I think my first post to this form in about 6 years!

The upper "splayed yard" as you call it was just put there as filler. Mostly an industrial lead for switching purposes, but I'm not happy with it either. I wouldn't build it like that once I get to the construction phase.

Well that's a relief. Now I can sleep.

No really it looks good. A little tweaking.

Sometimes you just need to start building. You can always make adjustments on the fly.

quote:

Originally posted by Laidoffsick:
OK well I'm stumped. Been working on several track plans for months now and drawing a blank! The room is 26 x 14. Access to the room through the top left and the front (bottom)between the 2 half walls (gray rectangles).

Goals:

minimum curves 072
large engine facility as the focal point (facing the front...bottom of pic)
long tracks for yard tracks....can be on a curve and hidden if needed
running 3 to 4 trains continuously while switching the yard and/or industries
preferrably 3 different levels with 2.5-3% max grade
going to use gargraves track and ross switches

I know, it's a lot to ask for in this space but.....

I would make a few general suggestions:
1) Think about the industries you are going to have. Do products go somewhere on your layout? For example, will grain come to a brewery or mill? Will coal or iron ore come to a steel mill? Think about moving products or consumables between points on your layout.
2) If you are modeling a prototype, look at photos of the area (repeatedly). They can inspire a decision.
3) Plan for access hatches. You've got a lot of track and the potential for derailments in out-of-the-way places.
4) Think about less track and more scenes. You're blessed with a very large space (26 x 14); fewer tracks will make it look even larger and add to the realism.
5) Since you are going to have multiple track levels, think hard about grades and separation between levels. Often what looks good on paper (2-dimensional) doesn't really work in the 3-d world.

Don't get frustrated by the planning exercise. Sometimes it takes awhile for a plan to come together in your head. No one just lays out a perfect plan, constructs the railroad, and has it work flawlessly without changes. And as you build, you will alter things as you refine your thinking or come up against the realities of layout construction.

My $0.02. Best of luck and let's see what you come up with.

George

Thats my biggest problem....cramming more and bigger curves into space I don't have. I tell myself to stay with 072 and 080, and a couple levels, then I turn right around and try to cram in more track and bigger curves.

quote:

Originally posted by Laidoffsick:
Thats my biggest problem....cramming more and bigger curves into space I don't have. I tell myself to stay with 072 and 080, and a couple levels, then I turn right around and try to cram in more track and bigger curves.

Try to resist that urge. Maybe the thing to do is use RR-Track in 3-d and see how cramped your design might be. It's a lot easier to design on the computer than use trial-and-error by building the trackwork.

George

OK so here's a start on a new plan, with a lot less cluter so far. The light blue track is just a Lionel tubular track loop we have incorporated into this Hi Rail layout. No turnouts, just a loop with conventional control for all the post war equipment, most likely on the lowest level and much of the ends hidden by the other 2 levels. The black track will most likely be the middle level and main focus to the room with the large TT and RH. The pink track obviously hasn't been finished, and just some turnouts and curves placed for track spacing purposes so far. This pink track will most likely be the highest level, at least along the right and left walls inorder to view and reach them. Of course I will need to plan some access points for the TT area, possibly making the diesel shed completely removable. I have shown a Korber shed but plan on using a Berkshire Valley kit instead. The TT will be Mill House River 34" and a RH from Brennan's.

I still plan on using Gargraves and Ross even though I'm doing this one with SacleTrax.

quote:

Originally posted by Laidoffsick:
Goals:

minimum curves 072
large engine facility as the focal point (facing the front...bottom of pic)
long tracks for yard tracks....can be on a curve and hidden if needed
running 3 to 4 trains continuously while switching the yard and/or industries
preferrably 3 different levels with 2.5-3% max grade

Laidoffsick

Again I offer a variation of my twisted folded dogbone layout plan. This plan accommodates all of your goals with a double main of over 200'. That means you could run 4 25' trains with 25' between trains. I've added a 50' branch line that is accessed by a pair of switches on the east side. It climbs to a relative 13.5" above table height. Assuming a 40" table that would make for a 52" clearance under bridge to access center isle. The main splits into 4 lines along the center isle. This creates a long yard lead and a passing siding. The main yard has a reverse loop. Let me know what you think.

Obsidian

I do like that plan, I have seen many variations of that twisted folded dogbone, and had a variation of my own. The only thing I don't like about that particular plan is the yard is NOT double ended. I know this space makes it tough for a large double ended yard, but it's an essential element I feel needs to be included.

Obsidian I like this layout. Any chance you could post the RRT file. If it is ok I would like to see if it would fit in my space.

Thanks

Do you need access from the door in the upper left? If not you could put your double ended yard along the top of the drawing. That way you could get the long yard in you wanted.

Otherwise I would put it on the diagonal like you did in your first drawing.

I have a plan with a big double ended yard up at the top of the plan. Then we decided that we really like access back there as there are 4 large windows on that back wall with shutters.

the 2 longest tracks are 15 feet long in this design.

Nice, but I see what you mean by the shutters. I liked your diagonal yard in the earlier plan. I thought that plan was good- just a few areas for potential improvement.

The diagonal yard definitely gives much longer tracks in general.

OK, considered you request for a larger diagonal yard and space along windows on top of room and came up with these designs in 3D. Note that all mainline curves are nested O-72, O-82 Realtrax (I dont have the gargraves track set for RRT). The 3D renderer doesnt support O-82 so thats what the gaps are. I made the layout 2 ways. One with the mainline tunneling under the yard. Another with it crossing over on a long bridge. I prefer the bridge route since you get to see the trains more. Max grade is 2.6%.

The double mainline on these layouts is 240', or 120' per loop which is pretty long.

Over:


Under:

Yeah I like the bridge route better as well. Do you have a jpg file of the bridge version?

Obsidian,

For some reason some of your track is disappearing in the renderings.


Laidoffsick,

I like the over better, because it is prototypical and you can make a custom bridge to span the yard. I don't think a railroad would tunnel under a yard like the under version.

Will,

I stated the reason for the disappearing O-82 track in my post.

Laidoffsick,

This plan is a variation of your original. I'm glad you prefer the bridge plan. I know some may be concerned about how to access hard to reach locations but there are lots of places for hatches. I left the whole right loop end open for a town or mountain scenery. I'd use trestle or curving girder bridges where the main crosses at either end of the yard so you can maintain line of sight during yard operations. I'd also consider splitting the main to go around not through the middle of the yard (more prototypical). This plan was done with MTH Realtrax. Since you are using Gargraves, I'd make the curves leading up to the bridge over the yard as wide (bigger than O-82, perhaps flex track) as possible.

This is a pretty big layout and could be executed in phases: Main, Yard, Turntable. In my experience, the longer the main the better so that you can run more and longer prototypical trains. With such a big yard you'll be able to park complete trains and keep a lot of your collection on track.

I like that Obsidian. The bridge over the yard reminds me of Altoona- although the bridges in Altoona are auto bridges.

Only thing I personally would change if it were mine is to provide more space for engine servicing- coal, sand, etc. Maybe re configure the turntable are with fewer radiating spurs to make room.

Actually, now that I look at it more closely, it would be useful to move the yard lead to the blue track so engines coming from the turntable could access it a little more directly. This would mean fiddling with that end of the yard.

perhaps take the dead end engine facillity track and move it back to coming off the main and run it over to the turntable. That way the left turntable lead would be for incoming locos with the ash pit and the right hand lead would be for serviced engines leaving with coaling tower water spout/tower and sanding facilities.

I really the like big yard, on a diagnal, as you say, you can park an entire train in a yard track. I'm gonna experiment with that your latest desgin just by flipping the RH so that the front of it faces the bottom of the page, that's the main entrance to the formal living as you come in the front door of the house.

I greatly appreciate your time and efforts Obsidian. I'm really diggin your ideas.

quote:

I'm gonna experiment with that your latest design just by flipping the RH so that the front of it faces the bottom of the page

Do you mean like this?

No, that just flipped the whole plan. I like the TT & RH in the back of the room (top of the plan) facing the bottom center, somewhat of a 45 degree angle from the back corner.

The very 1st jpg I posted has them in the right area, but the RH needs to be turned more towards the bottom center of the plan. So when you walk in the room, you're looking right at the stall doors.

It's pretty much down to these 2 options. Neither one is quite complete, but the mainlines and engine area is the just about wrapped up.

The pic posted above and the file shown below.

Laidoffsick,

After some thought I like the first plan better. It just seems to flow better when thinking in terms of entire trains.

That seems to be the general consensus. I have it posted on a few different sites for comments and suggestions. The 2nd plan just has so many curves right in the middle of the layout. Hardly any straight track, not to mention the curves are all "S" curves. With 072 and 080 curves, I just don't think that will work out very well. Too many problems with couplers and derailments probably.

The more I look at the 1st one though, it just seems kinda boring. I don't know.......I'm still confused!

The 1st is good as it doesnt have so many S curves. The 2nd layout I like as you do not have 2 duckunders or lift outs as your post-war blue line is in line with the entrance ( I am guessing the long purplish bridge is the entance/lift out or duckunder)?. How about combining the best of both. I agree - a tough choice.
George

Yeah George I actually already had modified that first plan to combine the 2 liftout bridges to a double track Atlas bridge, and extended the left side loop out another 18". I also modified the post war loop to extend all the way outside the layout to eliminate the liftout bridge in the middle of the walkway. We took a more accurate measurement of the room and discovered its actually 17' 2" deep so that helps greatly. The postwar loop will run around the entire layout, most likely blocked into 2 blocks to run 2 trains with TMCC and a PowerMaster or TPC-400.

Because the postwar loop runs off the planned size you can't see it go all the way across. It does run from 1 side to the other, and the single track purple bridge will be a double track Atlas bridge that lifts out to access the walkway in the front of the room.

I like that you have simplified it to one duckunder and include your postwar trains. I am watching this thread closely because I also want to incorporate a simple conventional postwar line with my DCS operated trains. Only it will be about 24 x 11, maybe a little deeper on one side. You are helping me with ideas! Thank you!

Obsidian,

Could you add a 3rd. track to the layout? I hand drew one on a printout and like what the results are.

The Carpet Central is all pack up and boxed away. The furniture is going to be put in storage "somewhere" and the bench work will begin. Final revsion of the track plan. It will change a bit when it comes time to lay the track, but all 3 loops connect and can reverse direction. Lowest level at 42", middle about 48"-49", and the upper most portion about 56" from the floor.

Obsidion, could you place what the rasius's are on this layout? I want to build one.Also, what size are the switches .Frank

Laid off,

 

How did i miss all this excitement?  Last i seen you where building a 3 by 18 switching yard!

Maybe i can blame the new set up of the  forum.

Hey there Patrick. I'm still working on the switching layout at my house. It's coming along at a slow pace. Hopefully construction at my parents house on the layout will begin soon, but it just depends on my dad and his foot. He has to have another surgery to remove that contraption on his foot which will start the healing process over again. Maybe I can use his foot as a saw horse when it comes to cutting all the bench work. It looks sturdy enough to hold up a 2 x 4 or two.  

Obsidian,

 

Can you be sweet talked into post the .rrt file for that fine looking layout. I have a 27x 17 layout that I am not happy with, and yours looks inspirational.

 

Best Regards

 

loulasalle@verizon.net

Making some progress.... bought a bunch of lumber, maybe this weekend we can get the bench work knocked out. We built a quick mock-up to test track heights before we cut all the legs too short.

 

 

We've established the lowest level of track will be 46.5" to the top of the rail. The middle level, and main level will be is 55 1/4" and the top level at the highest point will be 64" from the floor. This allows 7" of clearance berween levels.

 

Yes, everyone in our family is tall. Eye level really brings out all those details that we pay for

 

Yes, we are using 2x4's. They are half the price of a 1x4, and we are not little people. We will be climbing all over the bench work putting in the track lights and back drops on the 2 sides. The sub roadbed will be 3/4 ply with 1/2 homasote on top.

 

Yes we have 6" x 6" plywood pads under each leg. Just to get a more solid base and prevent the 2x4 leg from tearing through the carpet with the rough edges. No leveling hardware needed as the risers will allow plenty of adjustment if needed. 

 

This is only a mock-up. Legs will be braced, and they will not stick up above the joists. We didn't want to cut anything too short for the mock up and waste lumber.

 

There will only be 1 point of the layout at 64" tall, along the one side wall. Along the back it will drop down to the middle level by the time it reaches back around to the front.

 

 

Started the bench work. Didn't get as far as I wanted to but it was only one afternoon.

 

 

 

 

Have fun.  I'd like to see the plan for your existing layout.

 

 

 

2nd day... the other side of the room