3rd Rail F7 Rerun

In connection with 3rd Rail's announcement that it's re-running F7s in the Denver and Rio Grange livery (among other road names), I have a question as to whether it was typical practice for the D&RG to run passenger F-units in consists of A-B-A, A-B-B-A, or perhaps even A-B-B (depending, of course, on the length of the particular passenger train).  

Or maybe there wasn't any "typical practice" as such for D&RG and they used all three configuations (or others) as circumstance dictated.  

I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.  (Maybe Eric L. can weigh in here.)  Thanks!

Thanks for the info Jack. I have had various conversations with my dad about this subject but I always get my details fuzzy.

The 16 class F3s were used by the Santa Fe up through Amtrak and were mixed and matched with F7s after a few years.  When my family moved from San Diego to Washington DC in Feb of 63 we took the combined train from LA to Chicago.  On the head end were 5 units, ABABB.  All I remember was the warbonnets didn't match in the two A units so what the B units were I have no clue. 

There are passenger gearings with lower tractive effort but higher top speeds and freight gearing with higher tractive effort and lower top speeds.

Here is a short video of Santa Fe ABBA F3's pulling the El Capitan as recently as yesterday.  

Not to be out done, this video shows the California Zephyr being pulled by CB&Q ABA F3's.  

Yes it was recorded yesterday as well.    When we play with trains, we can turn back time. 

I can only imagine that somewhere, somebody yesterday was running the CZ with F3 DRG&W and/or WP on the point.

I think it would be a great idea! 

Personally I would love to see these three names. 

1. Norfolk Southern (OCS) 

2. Western Pacific

3. Northern Pacific 

My Q F3's pull the CZ alright!

jvega2 posted:

Picture worth a thousand words, F3's pulling the El Capitan.

There are many many photos of F3s pulling the El Capitan and even the combined Super Chief-El Capitan in the mid to late 60's. F7s were the normal "assigned" power for the El Cap but you'll find all sorts of power combinations on any of the SF trains.

Stirling R. Callahan posted:

I think it would be a great idea! 

Personally I would love to see these three names. 

1. Norfolk Southern (OCS) 

2. Western Pacific

3. Northern Pacific 

I would also like to see the Norfolk Southern executive F units. Would be nice to get them and the dome Delaware done by Scott.

F3s pullmy zephyr too

Hey domes forward, always!

Yeah, Matt, domes forward...always! Geez....

Yeah Yeah Yeah, I was late to the museum and in a hurry to get my completely Hodge podge train running for the visitors. One guy kept telling me how my train was built wrong and I kept telling him I have all the wrong cars so it doesn't matter right now. Half an hour later he'd come tell my how my train was built wrong and he could show me how to do it. After that he kept telling me how my MTH UP cars were backwards and the vestibule goes to the rear. Funny how the same guy told me that Alcos didn't pull the El Capitan the next week I was running at the museum. You ll be happy to know Jon and Santiago that I have corrected my mismatched train and it is now in the Jug Hauler boxes in the correct order with domes forward. It actually drove me nuts that I had the wrong cars for a correct train but I brought home home from the farm in 2 separate trips and I couldn't remember which ones I had at home when I grabbed the next 6 cars and if I didn't have the right train to me it didn't matter how it went on the tracks.

Likely excuse, Matt. BTW, what are 'Jug Hauler' boxes?

Mill City posted:

Likely excuse, Matt. BTW, what are 'Jug Hauler' boxes?

Maybe he means the "O Gauge Hauler" boxes offered by LAIDOFFSICK.

I didnt see any O scale anything being hauled in those boxes

Matt Makens posted:

I didnt see any O scale anything being hauled in those boxes

I didn't either...

Stirling,

We got 3 - 3R F7A  Northern Pacific for sale if you want them, here they are.

http://www.3rdrail.com/Diesel-SuperSale.html

Scott Mann

Mill City posted:

Matt Makens posted:

I didnt see any O scale anything being hauled in those boxes

I didn't either...

Started on the video until I realized I wasn't seeing anything about the boxes...

she gave a demo at O scale west last year. Loved it.

Laidoffsick posted:

Thats the point of having the demo girl there. She gets your attention, then shows you how to use the product. Quite simple marketing used by many companies. I dont see a problem.

I didn't see "a" problem, I saw two. And I don't consider either a problem.

There was a product in there?

The OP asked about Rio Grande practice. I have looked at a lot photos in my Rio Grande books and they all show F-3s (or F-7s) in A-B-B-A configuration when working the CZ. I have a photo of an A-B-B set of mixed F-units on the Prospector, an A-A set of F-7s assisted by an ALCo PA-PB set on the Royal Gorge, an F-3 B headed by an ALCo PA on the Royal Gorge, an F-3 A with ALCo PB on the Royal Gorge, and an F-3 A + F-3 B on the Royal Gorge, just for example, and an FT A, FT B, and F-7 on a freight. I think it's up to you on the freight and passenger, unless it's the CZ, in which case it should be A-B-B-A F-3s or F-7s (or A-B-A ALCos) for the premier train. And don't forget the "Perlman Mallet," four F-7s with a GP-9 spliced into the middle.

sdmann posted:

Stirling,

We got 3 - 3R F7A  Northern Pacific for sale if you want them, here they are.

http://www.3rdrail.com/Diesel-SuperSale.html

Scott Mann

 

 

Hi Scott,

Are there any photos of the NPs out there to see?

Thanks,

Sam

How many orders are needed to run a loco paint scheme?

I'd love to see the L&N done, but nobody ever seems to express interest in the L&N, except for Sam & myself.

I'd love to buy L&N locomotives if they were made, but it seems like the L&N is the red headed step child of the Class 1's.

It takes an order of 20 units to typically get a run to move forward.  Due to the small nature of this second run, I would think any combination of A and B units in two and three rail would be enough to advance that paint scheme forward.

Remember that 20 units is 10 AB sets or 5 ABBA sets.  Given how there are usually 4 different numbers, 5 ABBA sets mean only 2 of the 5 sets have duplicate numbers.  Anyone who will guarantee 20 units will get them done.  If 20 sell you're off the hook  if 15 sell your on the hook for the 5, etc.  This was how the SF yellowbonnets started out in the last run and they ended up being the second or third most popular livery.  Scott does not try and guess what people want, their reservations do that.  I guaranteed 20 Amtrak E8s when they were originally dropped due to insufficient reservations.  Scott now has the 20 so I am off the hook; except for the ones I reserved.

I would love to buy a SD40 and a couple of F7s. But after buying the El Capitan set and ordering the PAs and the E8s, you can buy only so much.

Green Bay & Western posted:

I would love to buy a SD40 and a couple of F7s. But after buying the El Capitan set and ordering the PAs and the E8s, you can buy only so much.

I wouldn't worry about the SD40-2s happening anytime soon.  Too few reservations.  Probably looking at a year from now or more for delivery.  My guess is the F7s will be on the schedule after the E8s and before the PAs, with other passenger trains and steam locomotives sprinkled instbetween.

RDUNNIII how's the TA rocket set looking?

The SD40s are guaranteed to be quite a ways out

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

RDUNNIII how's the TA rocket set looking?

Absolutely no clue.  Sorry.

Oh the joys of Jet Lag:

Here's an update on Diesel Production from Sunset /3rd Rail:

E8s and E9s, all finished, all inspected 3-4 times each by myself and my Korean production manager. I can't ask for greater people to work with in China. These guys (2 Chinese Guys)  own the factory (Not Really a Factory, but an Assembly House) and sit right with their workers assembling and touching up everything that needs to be done. Imagine 12-20 skilled modelers all working 10 hours a day to assemble, mask, paint, decal, test and retest again until each model looks like an expert produced it. It's fantastic. A little expensive, but great results. Well OK, it's a lot expensive.

E8/E9 Small Second Run for Standby Orders: We will try to fill any standby orders from the first run, those that can't be filled will be produced in the second run. Please don't change your order, just let us sort it out.

F7 2nd Run: Is starting immediately. We have ordered enough materials for 350 units, we have 340 reserved. So if your on the fence you have a short window before orders will go to standby.  There will not be a 3rd Run for a long time. To be finished end of June, yes END OF JUNE, and arriving in July. It can move out a little, but this is the production schedule.

ALCO PAs: We are beginning work on the tools now, production in August to September, Finishing in October.

Steam Engines:  CB&Q O1a Finished in JULY.  T&P 2-10-4 in October.

Trains and Cars:  O Scale Harriman Cars Finished in JULY.  GN Empire and Great Dome in NOVEMBER. Sunset Limited NOVEMBER. SILVER METEOR Early Next Year, working on design next.

THANK YOU ALL THAT HAVE SUPPORTED US IN DATA, CORRECTIONS and ORDERING.

In one of these threads, customers asked about Layaway. We are flexible but want no more than 3 months of payments once the models arrive. But we make exceptions especially if more than one project has arrived for you in the same shipment.

Any Questions: Not here, email me for fastest response.

A note about improvements to the 2nd Run of F7s:

1. Correction of all lift ring positions.

2. Fuel Tank will be diecast instead of built up brass with weights inside. Also lowered 2mm per Santiago's request.

3. Grills will be installed using tabs, not glued in from the outside.

4. The journals will use ball bearings for super smooth performance.

5. Extra Dummy short 3 Rail couplers will be provided in each 3 Rail box.

6. Cab Windows will be installed from the inside as they were designed. Not from the outside as the first run ended up. (Sorry, the rogue factory wouldn't cooperate with some last minute corrections).

I think that I spotted mine in that pile,Scott!

Norm

sdmann posted:

A note about improvements to the 2nd Run of F7s:

1. Correction of all lift ring positions.

2. Fuel Tank will be diecast instead of built up brass with weights inside. Also lowered 2mm per Santiago's request.

3. Grills will be installed using tabs, not glued in from the outside.

4. The journals will use ball bearings for super smooth performance.

5. Extra Dummy short 3 Rail couplers will be provided in each 3 Rail box.

6. Cab Windows will be installed from the inside as they were designed. Not from the outside as the first run ended up. (Sorry, the rogue factory wouldn't cooperate with some last minute corrections).

 

Absolutely nothing better than seeing continuous quality improvement.

You guys have my respect and sympathy in dealing with such massive offshore development efforts.

Thanks for for the updates Scott! Can't wait to get my hands on the F7s and those PAs!!! 

My only regret is not having a big enough wallet to get more!!

I am looking forward to my Demo units.  

I hope next year a rerun of the FP7's will occur and have an offering of Demo units as well!

sdmann posted:

 

5. Extra Dummy short 3 Rail couplers will be provided in each 3 Rail box. 

Scott this is probably a "Dummy" question.  But do these have fixed pilots as standard?  Is a 2-rail pilot with narrow "scale" opening included in the box?  Thanks!

All 3rd Rail locos have fixed pilots but you will need to order the 2 rail Kadee pilot separate. They're like $20

Dear Folks,

Thank you all for your orders. Our reservations for the F7 Rerun are full. We are limited by the parts ordered from various subcontractors to make these models starting NOW. Look for delivery in July / August.

Have a great spring/summer.

Thank You,

Scott Mann