3rd Rail J1d Hudson

Converting to ERR will be easy.  As for the rust, I've never seen that.  Can you post pics?

Few suggestions as I have this engine.

1. Add a pickup roller to the tender

2. Remove paint where the pilot truck and trailing truck attach to frame for better electrical connection to the track.

If the rust is on the tires I just use a dremel with a wire wheel. Lay it upside down, preferably in a cradle and apply power to it.

As Gary mentions upgrading is relatively easy. Easiest is to replace everything with a Cruise Commander and ERR Railsounds. Less expensive is get a Lionel diesel motherboard for the radio and two audio boards and get a ERR Cruise M. That will require making a few wire harnesses.

Pete

Karl, ….when you get into these specific requests, post up pics, …….it’ll help us help you!…..how bad the rust is will determine the course of action……..spitballing doesn’t do you any good,…..as far as electronics, what ERR do you have on the bench?…..pics of that stuff would help too,……😉

Pat

Per Gary's suggestions, (a) will check pilot & trailing truck conductivity & modify as needed and (b) agree on desirability of tender center rail pickup, but identifying a suitable part is my challenge.

Here's a picture of the tender with rusty wheels:

Despite that, it runs reasonably well!  No rust is apparent on the locomotive.  Sunset may be able to provide equivalent wheelsets, but I'll have to send Scott a wheelset for evaluation.

As for the electronics, I recently converted the similar 3rd Rail Niagara to ERR.  I would use the same ERR boards, Cruise Commander (DC) and "large steam" Railsounds, of which I have two virgin sets, on the Hudson.  Unfortunately, the Lionel wheel tachometer sensor that generates the chuff signal for the TAS configuration doesn't appear usable, due to its low current sinking capability, with the ERR boards (and the smoke unit), so I would need to replace it with the ERR RS kit's reed switch or GRJ's motor-based chuff generator.  IMO, the whistle of the ERR board is at lower volume than the bell and is rather wimpy, compared to the Lionel "generic" that is implemented via the TAS SAW mobo (or so it is on my Niagara).  But a combo of Lionel boards for RS and ERR Cruise would cause fit issues that I'd rather not overcome.  And prepping JST connectors is NOT FUN.

(b/t/w, the nude chassis behind the tender is a 1990s MTH GP-9, about to get a Blunami installation)

Karl, those wheels will clean up with a Dremel and wire wheel.

Pete

I agree with Pete, A dremel with a wire wheel will whip those wheels into shape. Afterwards, I’d wipe the wheels with a paper towel damp with lighter fluid to complete the cleaning process, follow that up by lubing the axles.

as for your ERR install, a speaker upgrade will help the ERR Railsounds.

Pat

@Norton posted:

Karl, those wheels will clean up with a Dremel and wire wheel.

Pete

Thanks.  Looks like a good diversion from tomorrow's predicted rain, though I'll probably have to first visit the hardware store for some Dremel bits.

I have a couple of speaker options that I can try, for better sound.

Karl, if you would, could you please post pictures of your conversion, I have the 3rd Rail J1a and the Niagara and would like to do the same. Thanks

@ConrailFan posted:

Karl, if you would, could you please post pictures of your conversion, I have the 3rd Rail J1a and the Niagara and would like to do the same. Thanks

I should have some pix of the Niagara conversion and will post them over the weekend (if I remember).  The J1d ERR upgrade project is still in "pending" status, as I really should get at least one dismantled loco finished and off my workbench before starting another.  The J1d and Niagara tethers appear to be identical, though I haven't yet traced out the pins for the J1d.  If they are, indeed, identical, then one could run the J1 with the PT tender, though the TMCC engine number wouldn't match, just for fun.

The J1d tender wheels cleaned up nicely using the wire brush & Dremel motor, though it won't surprise me if they rust again.  I'll wipe them with a lubricant tomorrow.

Thanks! Much Appreciated!

Somebody say 3rdrail Niagara.  I converted mine to EOB decades ago.  Runs so smooth I dare not upgrade to ERR until the electronics fry

@superwarp1, Gary, I'm actually curious that you didn't have this upgraded by Bruk?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

@superwarp1, Gary, I'm actually curious that you didn't have this upgraded by Bruk?

He has two of my engines now, one almost a year.  With work, family, and life in general he does not have the time to take on many projects.  There's so many engines I could send him.  My J1 3drdrail Hudson, my Niagara, B&M Berk, Weaver B&M Pacific, etc, etc.   One of the engines he does have is my 3rdrail L3 Mohawk, hopefully by the beginning of the year but next is a MTH UP challenger.  That's top priority.

I managed to get one of his 3rd Rail Mohawks that he converted years ago. I bought it from the person who had him convert it. I don't know if I missed something up(other than the bell cord), but I contacted Bruk to see if he could help. He advised on possible remote problems, resets and such, but something blew. The good things were he had a small opening so I could send it to him, and that it wasn't something major that he suspected. It was back within a couple weeks in new condition.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I managed to get one of his 3rd Rail Mohawks that he converted years ago. I bought it from the person who had him convert it. I don't know if I missed something up(other than the bell cord), but I contacted Bruk to see if he could help. He advised on possible remote problems, resets and such, but something blew. The good things were he had a small opening so I could send it to him, and that it wasn't something major that he suspected. It was back within a couple weeks in new condition.

Bet it runs like a swiss watch

Karl..........Norm Charbonneau has two posts that you might find of interest. He graciously sent me a 3d print file for a tender wheel. A friend printed a few for me and they work pretty good creating 4 chuffs per driver rotation. On a tender you use two magnets 180 degrees apart. Just completed my third conversion. I use hall effect sensors (three wire). ERR sound commander and Lionel module sound both support them. The five pin plug on both provide the + 5v plus ground and chuff in from the sensor. I can provide details if you want to try it.

https://ogrforum.com/...ray-into-3d-printing

https://ogrforum.com/...chuff-cam-for-my-j1a

Richard

@Rppoind posted:

Karl.......... I use hall effect sensors (three wire). ERR sound commander and Lionel module sound both support them. The five pin plug on both provide the + 5v plus ground and chuff in from the sensor. I can provide details if you want to try it.

Richard

The Lionel Hall-effect sensor that is part of the TAS SAW chuff scheme is limited to 3mA of current, which I doubt is sufficient to support both chuff sound and smoke blower loads.  If you have made it work with ERR electronics AND the smoke blower, I'm sure interested in "how".

@KarlDL posted:

The Lionel Hall-effect sensor that is part of the TAS SAW chuff scheme is limited to 3mA of current, which I doubt is sufficient to support both chuff sound and smoke blower loads.  If you have made it work with ERR electronics AND the smoke blower, I'm sure interested in "how".

If you want a simpler solution for fan smoke that puffs in time with chuff, get up with Mike Reagan ( Mikado on this forum ) he sells a comprehensive smoke unit that is simple 3 wire hook up that also will take chuff in command and provide a puff every chuff cycle, and idle smoke. The unit is complete, & ready to install. All you have to do is provide a mount & a chimney ( brass tubing )

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

If you want a simpler solution for fan smoke that puffs in time with chuff, get up with Mike Reagan ( Mikado on this forum ) he sells a comprehensive smoke unit that is simple 3 wire hook up that also will take chuff in command and provide a puff every chuff cycle, and idle smoke. The unit is complete, & ready to install. All you have to do is provide a mount & a chimney ( brass tubing )

Pat

Sunset/3rd Rail smoke unit from Royz Trains does the same thing.  I installed one in my Niagara, replacing the original Lionel smoke unit and the outboard TAS fan controller.  No chimney needed.

@Rppoind posted:

Karl..........Norm Charbonneau has two posts that you might find of interest. He graciously sent me a 3d print file for a tender wheel. A friend printed a few for me and they work pretty good creating 4 chuffs per driver rotation. On a tender you use two magnets 180 degrees apart. Just completed my third conversion. I use hall effect sensors (three wire). ERR sound commander and Lionel module sound both support them. The five pin plug on both provide the + 5v plus ground and chuff in from the sensor. I can provide details if you want to try it.

https://ogrforum.com/...ray-into-3d-printing

https://ogrforum.com/...chuff-cam-for-my-j1a

Richard

These already have a magnet on the axle. You could replace the hall sensor with a reed switch supplied by ERR with their steam railsounds assuming you didn’t have a 3rd party source for them. Instead of wiring the reed switch directly into chuff in on the radio board have it drive a DPDT reed relay having it switch a 5v source for the coil. Wire one relay pole to the chuff in and the other to smoke fan power. If you use a smoke unit with a 5v regulator already on board that is what you power the fan with through the other pole. Easy peasy. I opened my J1 tender up and a Cruise M will fit over the speaker if you remove the battery holder. Get the motherboard below and keep the existing radio and sounds boards. No need to put up with those wimpy ERR Railsounds.


Pete

Karl......This is what I use. Bit more robust at 60ma.

Richard

AH3572
Document number: DS40412 Rev. 1 - 2
3 of 14
www.diodes.com
February 2018
© Diodes Incorporated
AH3572
NEW PRODUCT
Continuous Output Current
60
mA
IOUT_R
Reverse Output Current
-50

@Norton posted:

Get the motherboard below and keep the existing radio and sounds boards. No need to put up with those wimpy ERR Railsounds.


Pete

This mobo doesn't show up on the Lionel parts site.

@KarlDL posted:

This mobo doesn't show up on the Lionel parts site.

Leave out the dashes.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Leave out the dashes.

Pete

Wasn’t this pre second gen legacy stuff purged?

@superwarp1 posted:

Wasn’t this pre second gen legacy stuff purged?

It says add to cart. I have ordered three recently.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Leave out the dashes.

Pete

That worked.  Where does one get the connector pin-outs?  "spose I could go through my Lionel TMCC diesels and see if any of them have identical-looking mobos and figure it out using the diesel as the rosetta stone.

@KarlDL posted:

That worked.  Where does one get the connector pin-outs?  "spose I could go through my Lionel TMCC diesels and see if any of them have identical-looking mobos and figure it out using the diesel as the rosetta stone.

Most of the time the Lionel boards are labeled pin for pin on the other side …..

Pat

Unfortunately, Lionel only left us the scraps. This board has few if any markings. At least it uses the same JST EH connectors as TAS used so some of the connectors are the same like the two pin couplers and the 4 pin steering signals. The rest you will have to ring out. This should help.

https://ogrforum.com/...oard%2520Pinouts.pdf

Pete

@Norton posted:

Unfortunately, Lionel only left us the scraps. ... This should help.  ... The rest you will have to ring out.

Pete

"Ring out" - classic telco term - with its lifespan nearing the end!  This is fast looking like a project for gloomy, rainy fall/winter days!  Thanks for the link - every little bit of info helps!

@Norton posted:

Karl, those wheels will clean up with a Dremel and wire wheel.

Pete

Yup a wire wheel, of you can try WD-40 first. It will remove surface rust.. They almost look as if they got wet at some point?