400e

All of the modern 400e's, including the Lionel classics from the late 80's are made by MTH.

The obvious differences between the original Lionel 400E's and the MTH repros are in the contemporary MTH models with Proto Sounds 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 systems all with can motors.

@Tinplate Art posted:

The obvious differences between the original Lionel 400E's and the MTH repros are in the contemporary MTH models with Proto Sounds 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 systems all with can motors.

Not always.  Up to a certain point, MTH gave the customer the option of selecting a 400E with an open frame traditional motor.

The 400e I have looks exactly like an original 400e

if you turn it over it has the Lionel bild-a-loco motor  which looks like its an old classic 

also there is no MTH anywhere to be found

so how do I know it’s not an original 

There has usually been a CHOICE of MTH contemporary 400's with the various Proto systems, OR the traditional locos with the BAL motors. Your engine is close to the original Lionel 400's. I have a Lionel Classics 2-400E made by Samhongsa in South Korea for MTH in then partnership with Richard Kughn. It has a BAL motor and a diecast air whistle (curiously with an electronic relay) in the tender. Bought it SEALED in the shipping carton from a well-known reputable dealer so it came that way from the factory.

JJ: Does yours have Lionel badging? Is it a Lionel Classics model dark gray in color? How about some photos?

It says lionel all over it 

Classic blue 

Drive wheels look to be in great shape. Are they stamped Lionel as well? Repros would not have the Lionel ID.

Only that I was told it was made by Mth and it’s in such pristine condition it looks like it was just manufactured.

Only that I was told it was made by Mth and it’s in such pristine condition it looks like it was just manufactured.

But again there’s absolutely no indication of anything other than Lionell on it

Ah, you most likely have a Lionel Corporation Tinplate model with legitimate Lionel badging made by MTH with license from Lionel!

Yes.  I believe that is what it is

but the question is how do I know that’s what it is????

Without the LCT box, not for sure, but highly probable! Those wheels and boiler trim look to be MINT condition. Your engine lacks the patina of an original and those drive wheels are new looking!

Just ENJOY it and run it! Do you have a set of BC cars?

I don’t have the box or any cars to go with it.

I don’t have the box or any cars to go with it.

Right now I’m keeping it on display with no intention of running it

Sounds like a good plan! I run my Lionel Classics 2-400E frequently but also like to just look at it coupled to three MTH state cars!

@JJ posted:

Classic blue 

The answer might be in that screw head for the smoke box door.  I suspect you have an mth model, but I would look for pictures of that screw on older models.  I am not a standard gauge guy, but usually fastener styles are give-aways.

Flip it over. underneath the rear truck it will say either "MTH" or "LTI" on the frame in the ashpan area.  Original are marked 400E-4. Also look for a mold parting line under the front truck... Originals do not have this.  I suspect it is an early Tinplate Traditions loco...

Great.  I will check it out tomorrow 

YES!!!mystery solved it had MTH stamped behind the rear truck

thanks

The Lionel Corp says MTH underneath but has Lionel badging.  Also I have brown box MTH with Lionel badging.  Was told by the original owner it came that way. 

Back when Mike began producing his repro tinplate and even when Jerry Williams was producing it before him, there were some suppliers of the Lionel badging not only for engines, but also for the repro 840 Power Station smokestacks. 

Those folks that offered those unauthorized Lionel plates and badging in the 70's & 80's were not the usual parts dealers of the day, and their products were usually only available by mail order. They were sort of an "underground" cottage industry in the pre-internet days.

Something you might not have  noticed: there are SLIGHT differences in some of the castings for the MTH engines (steam chest for example). You would have to have them side by side to see (and the steam chest has 'MTH' embossed on the casting as well.  I have suffered this with parts for Harmon Challengers which use the 400E steam chest on the front mechanism. Even the two 'bosses' on the steam chest that mate to the frame do not match the originals.  I think that Mike was always good about marking his wares. Others not so much.

Jim

Mystery solved, but I would say think would be no way an original 400e could look that new no matter how it was stored.  Wouldn't 90 years of age have had to aged the finish? The fact that it looked so convincingly like an original is a testament to the quality of the work MTH did on these engines.

I have a thirty-year old dark gray with nickel trim Lionel Classics 2-400E which looks like it just came out of the box. MTH  and Samhongsa built 'em right!