Restoring Lionel PW #602 Seaboard Switcher - Help Needed!

Jeff should be able to help

http://www.ttender.com/

and search the bay...I've gotten several steamer motors without a bad one yet.

I have found that motors like yours, the staking that holds the motor together have worked loose, causing bad running and being loud. Hold the motor by the wheels and see if the motor frame has any side to side movement. Look for loose top and side plate movement. If so, a small ball peen hammer and a flat punch can cure the problem.

I recently had the same locomotive with the same problem - stripped drive gear in the motor-truck assembly.  The only assembly I found would not work correctly.

That was a very poor design, and if all else fails, put it on the shelf and get a modern version of that switcher.

Bruce, that's what I was afraid of.  I wanted to try to fix it up to "standard" as it was my first locomotive.  Maybe I'll get lucky and find another complete engine assembly and truck assembly.  Then it may be a little easier to fix.

The usual problem is the lower bearing plate starts floating in the stamped aluminum motor side frames as the factory staking  works loose over the years. This will cause the armature to hop violently and the brushes to jump around in their holders. This typically makes it run much better in reverse, & sound like a coffee grinder in forward.

The old Lionel fix for this was to "dent" the side frames with a punch, some shops used cardstock jammed in to firm up the plate.

I have had good luck using tiny black anodized self-tapping screws into drilled pilot holes to hold the bearing in place.

For a non-destructive fix, which has held up very well for me for several years now, use CRC QD or any non-residue contact cleaner, clean ALL oil & residue from between the sideframes & the bearing, using the nozzle to spray into the crevice.  Dry it out well, several hours or overnight with a light airflow.

Now use the regular "thin"(not gel) CA adhesive("Super Glue", Eastman 910, etc.) and flow the cement into the crevice on both sides, letting it creep in by capillary action to fill the gap.

In about 10 minutes, the loco is ready to be lubed(grease on gears, oil on pivots & bearings/axles - don't forget to grease the lower armature bushing below the worm) and will run like new.

The way your diesel is running now is indication that it needs nothing beyond this fix and just regular maintenance.

The newer equivalent motor assembly for this engine is the 8354-100 which came out in 1973:

It is a steel frame instead of aluminum, collector rollers built in, & has Zamac wheels with traction tires instead of MagneTraction, but they are very smooth runners and somewhat quieter due to the Nylon/plastic worm wheel & intermediate gears. They come up for sale on eBay occasionally.

@ADCX Rob posted:

The usual problem is the lower bearing plate starts floating in the stamped aluminum motor side frames as the factory staking  works loose over the years. This will cause the armature to hop violently and the brushes to jump around in their holders. This typically makes it run much better in reverse, & sound like a coffee grinder in forward.

The old Lionel fix for this was to "dent" the side frames with a punch, some shops used cardstock jammed in to firm up the plate.

I have had good luck using tiny black anodized self-tapping screws into drilled pilot holes to hold the bearing in place.

For a non-destructive fix, which has held up very well for me for several years now, use CRC QD or any non-residue contact cleaner, clean ALL oil & residue from between the sideframes & the bearing, using the nozzle to spray into the crevice.  Dry it out well, several hours or overnight with a light airflow.

Now use the regular "thin"(not gel) CA adhesive("Super Glue", Eastman 910, etc.) and flow the cement into the crevice on both sides, letting it creep in by capillary action to fill the gap.

In about 10 minutes, the loco is ready to be lubed(grease on gears, oil on pivots & bearings/axles - don't forget to grease the lower armature bushing below the worm) and will run like new.

The way your diesel is running now is indication that it needs nothing beyond this fix and just regular maintenance.

The newer equivalent motor assembly for this engine is the 8354-100 which came out in 1973:

It is a steel frame instead of aluminum, collector rollers built in, & has Zamac wheels with traction tires instead of MagneTraction, but they are very smooth runners and somewhat quieter due to the Nylon/plastic worm wheel & intermediate gears. They come up for sale on eBay occasionally.

Rob I did everything you mentioned above, bought on ebay and did a complete service, replaced brush springs, brushes you name it, gave it a degrease, oiled, it ran well forward / reverse. then it started that chatter noise in forward, coffee grinder as you say in both, directions. E-unit I did a rebuild. the gears do look like have a little play more then my #627 and 209.

Don't know if this helps, any help would be great. Mark

This plate is loose.

I have one switcher with the same truck as pictured above in ADCX Rob's post. Mine had a bottom plate and the 'oil' spot had not been oiled often enough and the armature sorta burred out the location on the bottom plate and the armature just wouldn't set in there happily without grinding away. I'm hoping your bottom plate can be snugged up

It also looks like the intermediate gear on the coupler end of the truck is worn and loose on its stud.  You can see that it's cocked at an angle in the photo.  If you're not absolutely committed to keeping it original, the 8354 MPC integral power truck would get it back on the rails running better than ever!

I would try what ADCXrob mentioned about adding a shim between one of the metal plates and the plastic bearing housing. I have a 44 tonner that had the same issue and I used a match from a pack of matches for a shim and it did the trick.

@Ted S posted:

It also looks like the intermediate gear on the coupler end of the truck is worn and loose on its stud.  You can see that it's cocked at an angle in the photo.

Also probably contributing... but they will run for a while like this! Use some Red 'N' Tacky grease to keep the gear from flying around too much.

@ADCX Rob posted:

Also probably contributing... but they will run for a while like this! Use some Red 'N' Tacky grease to keep the gear from flying around too much.

Good point was thinking that, I do have a tube, I went back and did another degrease I found with the armature off moving the wheels forward it hung up a little, so maybe I missed some old grease that started this. After recleaning put back together without cup washer and springs, put on track runs like a clock again forward and reverse, so those so called speed nuts thinking maybe drill a hole in those brackets buying two more slide shoes and maybe using small cotter pins to hold in place, but back to that gear near the coupler it does seem to have more play then my other two diesels. Anybody ever use something other then those speed nuts please show some picture to make this easier to disassemble. Lionel should have stayed with the 622 style frame instead of saving money. Anyhow thanks for the points all!  Mark! God Speed!