FYI: This is a fascinating article, worthwhile reading for all train hobbyists. Read, be enlightened and enjoy. The future is not destined to be one of doom and gloom but holds much promise for future deveopments in our beloved hobby.
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Interesting story, thanks for posting!
-Dave
Excellent story that could give a whole new meaning to a term -Vision line! Thanks for sharing!
An interesting story. To go with it, there was a story in the Wall Street Journal this week about a toy company that is bringing production back to the U.S. from China. They decided that with highly automated production methods, they could make their plastic toys as cheaply as they could import them from China. The real payoff is reduced lead time to respond to market demand, plus much better control. To do so, however, required some redesign to reduce hand assembly labor. The product is packaged partially assembled, for the kid to put together when he gets it - sort of like Legos or Plasticville. Part of the redesign involved increasing the end user's contribution to assembly. This makes me think - could a revival of kits be part of the solution to bringing model train production back from China? How would the market react to, say, an Atlas reefer in kit form, with all the painting and decorating done but attaching all the little doodads left to the end user. Atlas already does something like this with their undecorated products, since it's much easier to paint a locomotive or car without all the tchotchkes attached.
In any event, 3-D printers have been a staple of science fiction since the 50's. Every self-respecting spaceship or capsule home had one. Push a few buttons and get tableware, clothing, optics, whatever. Star Trek is coming!
Originally Posted by Southwest Hiawatha:
......... The product is packaged partially assembled, for the kid to put together when he gets it - sort of like Legos or Plasticville. Part of the redesign involved increasing the end user's contribution to assembly. This makes me think - could a revival of kits be part of the solution to bringing model train production back from China? ...........
I remember lots of my toys (70's into early 80's) had parts that required some minor final assembly. Specifically, I had more than a few Star Wars playsets that had pieces that were bagged to be final assembled by the parents (or kid, assuming old enough).
I loved doing the Athearn Blue Box kits when I was into HO, so for simple rolling stock I would not discount this as a possibility. I'm not sure on engines.
While I liked doing the the kits in general, there was the occasional frustration when something wasn't right. Specifically, I recall a few times when the holes for railings/stanchions (sp?) were not fully drilled, and I did not know anything about the proper use of pin vises and tiny drill bits to correct that problem back then.
-Dave
Originally Posted by Southwest Hiawatha:
..How would the market react to, say, an Atlas reefer in kit form, with all the painting and decorating done but attaching all the little doodads left to the end user...
This is exactly the type of thing I've been waiting for. Growing up my brother had HO and I had O. We would both go to the hobby shop with twenty bucks. My brother could come home with a handful of aethern kits and build a whole new train plus he had the tactile experience and satisifaction of assembling them himself. I would come home with a toy train magazine and the change waiting until I had saved up enough to actually buy one new freight car. I would love to see some inexpensive kits on the market. The thought of dropping 50, 60 or even 70 dollars on one new car drives me crazy. I haven't bought but a handful of "new" freight cars from anywhere that wasn't on sale in years. This would also be a great way to get my son to build something other than Legos ( Don't get me wrong I love Legos!) I actually found a k-line boxcar kit once and had a great time building it with him.
Anyway I vote yes. Please someone be willing to fill the market void with kits that require assembly, have a reasonably low price point, and don't need paint.
Living in the future is great !
I do not see 3-D printing as a manufacturing process. We use it in prototype stages with much success but using it for production is a whole different thing. 3 hours to print a loco body vs 3 bodies a minute with injection molding.......3-D will be for prototyping and custom runs of two and threes. But the tech is very interesting.
Yes, AMC Dave, 3 bodies a minute is slow now, but remember how slow those early impact ribbon computer printers were compared to today's laser jets or the early thermal copiers compared to today's high speed copiers or even the data cassettes for the Commodore C64 compared to today's computer memory storage modules.
Technology advances with lightning speed and with its potential it's very likely this technology will be up to warp speed sooner than we might imagine it could be..
Originally Posted by AMCDave:
I do not see 3-D printing as a manufacturing process. We use it in prototype stages with much success but using it for production is a whole different thing. 3 hours to print a loco body vs 3 bodies a minute with injection molding.......3-D will be for prototyping and custom runs of two and threes. But the tech is very interesting.
Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:
Yes, AMC Dave, 3 bodies a minute is slow now, but remember how slow those early impact ribbon computer printers were compared to today's laser jets or the early thermal copiers compared to today's high speed copiers or even the data cassettes for the Commodore C64 compared to today's computer memory storage modules.
3 bodies a minute for 3-D printing MIGHT be viable for production.....but a O scale fully detailed body would take 3 HOURS to print today. And there is no clear resin that will work with printing for decent windows, headlights etc....yet.(and don't talk about surface finish yet)
And as my prior job was a IT system analyst I know technology can change rapidly. In 1979 a TB of DASD storage took a room the size of a basketball court, environmentals that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and a staff of 3 to run. Today I have the same storage next to my PC, it cost $75 and needs no support.
So using that example I guess 3-D printing will be used for production some day....doubt I'll see it in mainstream use.
Hi Kenn, this is a very interesting thread. I think we will, or at lest our children will see many advancements in our hobby that we can only dream about right now.
How about 3D images of people walking arouind our 1/48th world. Or black smoke coming out of the "stacks" of our engines.
Or the ability to control our trains from a virtual cab that is projected in a helmet and the controls are set per your mental commands.
Who ever thought twenty-five years ago that we would be able to control a hundred engines from one hand held unit.
Or our personal phone would make Spok's Tri-coder look like a Tinker toy, or would have many times the prossesing capabilities of the on board computer that took our men to the moon?
Gee, it seems like yesterday I was trying to get my head around the workings of a Fax machine. Oh that's right it was yesterday.
In any case, there will be many cool things to come down the road.
My only question is, will they all be compatible?
This process is simply CAM or computer assisted manufacturing. You use a CAD program to design, then the programis entered into the machine and the part(s) are cut to the program specs. This process can be used for milling, drilling, laser cutting , screw machining and shaping. The complexity of the part determines the speed at which the parts can be produced but do not expect this process to be in the hands of people anytime soon as these CAM machines are expensive. What is possible is to have the parts designed via CAD and then the program can be sent to a machine shop with CAM equipment to manufacture the parts.
Yes, Dennis, these machines are expensive for now, but just as the speed and ease of use of technology have progressed rapidly, who's to say the cost for future generations of this type of equipment might also drop incrementally more rapidly than presently thought possible. The more it's utilized in mainstream manufacturing and production, the faster the price will likely drop. Trying to accurately and precisely predict the cost of such equipment five years from now would be like guessing a roll of the dice.
Originally Posted by Dennis LaGrua:
This process is simply CAM or computer assisted manufacturing. You use a CAD program to design, then the programis entered into the machine and the part(s) are cut to the program specs. This process can be used for milling, drilling, laser cutting , screw machining and shaping. The complexity of the part determines the speed at which the parts can be produced but do not expect this process to be in the hands of people anytime soon as these CAM machines are expensive. What is possible is to have the parts designed via CAD and then the program can be sent to a machine shop with CAM equipment to manufacture the parts.
While the cost of the machine is dropping the costs of the materials required is not. The "ink" is often not suitable for production models because the materials involved are not suitable or the way the objects are "printed" renders them useless for their intended purposes. The materials consumed can be a deal breaker on use of this technology. We asked one of out labs about making some parts for some easels we use to display posters. The cost of the real parts was $5 each but this issue was getting them. When we asked the lab they indicated it would take about an hour per part and cost $500 in materials per unit. The actual plastic used to make the piece was less than 1cc (about $50 worth, what a deal). The other $450 was the cost of the "lost" material used to make the part and the recycling of same. The "powder" used for printing can't be reused until it's reprocessed (aka ground/sifted/conditioned). You can't do this with a mortar and pestle and kitchen sieve (unless you don't mind voiding the warranty on your $100K printer).
When you factor in the costs of the software required to create the print file and the expertise required to use it these devices are not going to be showing up in anyone's home anytime soon unless they like to tinker around. It is nice that the costs of the technology has dropped to where smaller engineering/machine shops can buy in without breaking the bank.
FYI, for something really scary, there are research teams working on making a printer for "food". It uses engineered proteins as "ink". Yum!
Originally Posted by chuck:
When you factor in the costs of the software required to create the print file and the expertise required to use it these devices are not going to be showing up in anyone's home anytime soon unless they like to tinker around.
The biggy that most folks don't factor in!!! I am a graphics guy. I have been following this 3-d printer thing for years. I bought a laser cutter years ago and like what new tech can do.
So the manufacture of one 3-D printer offered free 3-D software to use in their printer. PERFECT.....it said if you had any engineering and graphics background you could learn this software quickly. I tried to learn it....but making a simple cube with two intersecting holes in it was HARD!!! After a few months of on and off attempts I gave up. I did not want to invest the time to be able to 'draw' even a simple detailed part. So folks need to know we ain't at the Star Trek replicator stage yet.....you still need someone to engineer a item!
AMCDave,
Would it be plausible take a basic shell and use 3D printing to add detail in place of some separately added parts? It would give a manufacturer the flexibility to sell road specific engines that differ in detail as well as paint without the additional tooling necessary for slightly different added details. Also, it could allow for smaller and secondary runs of road names because half of the necessary changes would be at the push of a button rather than having to order a bulk amount of added detail parts.
Nathan
Some of the newer molds allow for some variation of models by swapping in/out sections as "inserts".
