UPDATED 12/27/16 VL BB PICTURES !!! A LOOK INSIDE THE NEW LIONEL ALLEGHENY

Great pics Alex as usual. How much run time is on the engine for the batting to be so charred already??

Clearly a sign of not enough smoke fluid. Its too new for the wick to be that black already. It has NOT had a good soak yet.

Can't believe there's no grease in the gear box.

Nice to see 2 full size Fat Boys in there and not the Baby Fat Boys. Would be nicer if they were enclosed though.

Thanks for the photos Alex.

What took so long?

Are you soupin' it up? More power?

Just maintenance! Come on. Thanks for sharing the great pics.

No excuse for the absence of lubricant.

Laidoffsick posted:

Nice to see 2 full size Fat Boys in there and not the Baby Fat Boys. Would be nicer if they were enclosed though.

Thanks for the photos Alex.

put one up into the boiler!!

Thanks ALEX for the peek inside this engine.  Lube em up boys.

Alex, Can you please point out the locations grease should be introduced for all those who should make sure there engine is not devoid of lubrication.

Seems kinda sparse inside, even for a Legacy engine. Eh, what are you going to do?

ALEX M, not having or seen any allegheny  I see 3 holes for smoke unit can you explain this for me thanks

Stack and whistle steam

StPaul posted:

ALEX M, not having or seen any allegheny  I see 3 holes for smoke unit can you explain this for me thanks

Hi stPaul 

just like Doug says above, there's a double stack for the main smoke and one for the whistle steam. 

Males 

Thank God it wasn't an autopsy Alex!  There's been a good bit of bad PR swerlling around the Allegheny

l appreciate the chance to have had a look inside.

Richad

MichRR714 posted:

Alex, Can you please point out the locations grease should be introduced for all those who should make sure there engine is not devoid of lubrication.

Hi Charlie 

The most important areas to  lubricate are , between all drive wheels and the chassis, also the gearbox which is pictured here. You will see another picture below of the worm gear which I'm glad had plenty of grease in it. 

Thanks, Alex 

Nice pictures Alex. 

I'm disappointed that Lionel is using Canon motors now and not the Pittman motors.  I've had two of those Canon motors dead shorted, one took out the RCMC, the other one I was able to rescue the RCMC with a driver FET replacement.  I've never had that kind of issues with the Pittman motors, and I have some really old stuff with Pittman motors that still run fine.

Hi guys 

this  particular engine runs very large club layout and it also pulls a huge amount of rolling stock. So it was in need of traction tires, new smoke batting and a good oil and grease. Basically that was it. 

Thanks, Alex 

Alex,

I have one of these as well. Just pulled it out of the box, are you suggesting I need to pull it apart and grease it? I know the engine you are tuning up and yes it probably has 20 hours with 39 cars behind it so traction tires and new batting is not a surprise but the grease issue is interesting and a small concern. Would like your feedback.

Can you add the super smoker to this unit?

Kevin

PSU1980 posted:

Alex,

I have one of these as well. Just pulled it out of the box, are you suggesting I need to pull it apart and grease it? I know the engine you are tuning up and yes it probably has 20 hours with 39 cars behind it so traction tires and new batting is not a surprise but the grease issue is interesting and a small concern. Would like your feedback.

Can you add the super smoker to this unit?

Kevin

 

 

Hi Kevin

you only need to grease the bottom gearbox pictured below. You can't add a super chuffer to this engine. 

This is a new Legacy locomotive, it should offer the features of the Super-Chuffer, idle smoke, Rule-17 lighting, and cab light control.  No need to add it, it's already there.

Alex M, Thank You for the Inside Scoop on this really nice Locomotive.  It certainly looks to be well made and should be a great puller.  My last Allegeny was the 5.0 version and it was a really nice running/pulling Locomotive. It did not smoke good but everything else worked fine.  My reason for not purchasing this Legacy Controlled engine was not enough $$$$. The VL GG1 was my choice. If Lionel had added a speaker in the boiler, (for echo effect), and rear blow down, then I could have justified the money....Thank You for the lubrication tips....Happy Holidays to You and Your Family...You are a Great Ambassador of Our Hobby...

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Nice pictures Alex. 

I'm disappointed that Lionel is using Canon motors now and not the Pittman motors.  I've had two of those Canon motors dead shorted, one took out the RCMC, the other one I was able to rescue the RCMC with a driver FET replacement.  I've never had that kind of issues with the Pittman motors, and I have some really old stuff with Pittman motors that still run fine.

Ironically enough John remember that my Allegheny had a bad RCMC when it arrived DOA.  

Yep, it's not normal for the RCMC to die, they seem to be fairly reliable.  I don't blame the RCMC, I blame the cheap Canon motors.

Looks like that smoke unit has thermistor next to the heating resistor.  Are these smoke units temperature controlled?  If so,not doing a very good job of keeping the wicking from charing.

i just pulled apart a turbo smoke unit installed ten years ago.  No charring what so ever.

Alex M posted:

MichRR714 posted:

Alex, Can you please point out the locations grease should be introduced for all those who should make sure there engine is not devoid of lubrication.

Hi Charlie 

The most important areas to  lubricate are , between all drive wheels and the chassis, also the gearbox which is pictured here. You will see another picture below of the worm gear which I'm glad had plenty of grease in it. 

Thanks, Alex 

Looks like I'll be checking all my Legacy steamers this week.

Thanks Alex and John

No rhyme or reason on greased gears. I have to check my diesels too! 

Is that a flux capacitor in that engine Alex? 

Gee that engine looks familiar. Thanks Alex.

Jim D.

I have a new guy question for you guys.  Why do the steamers typically only get one engine and the diesels 2?  These are longer locomotives right?  Can the steamers pull as much as the diesels?

TrainGuyMcGee posted:

I have a new guy question for you guys.  Why do the steamers typically only get one engine and the diesels 2?  These are longer locomotives right?  Can the steamers pull as much as the diesels?

Hi TrainGuyMcGee,

    The steamer motor is quite larger than a diesel motor, in short the diesels get two small motors and the steamer gets one large motor.

Alex

Ahh ok.  So I'm guessing the pulling powers about the same then?

TrainGuyMcGee posted:

Ahh ok.  So I'm guessing the pulling powers about the same then?

Actually the pulling power varies from engine to engine, whether it's a diesel or a steam engine .

Alex

Thanks for the heads up on the grease. I will have to check mine tonight. I already had to send my first VGN Allegheny back to Lionel for a broken drive shaft. When they sent it back to me, it got trashed in shipping. They ended up sending me a replacement engine. That has a few cosmetic issue, but way better than the other one looked after UPS got done with it.

PSU1980 posted:

Alex,

I have one of these as well. Just pulled it out of the box, are you suggesting I need to pull it apart and grease it? I know the engine you are tuning up and yes it probably has 20 hours with 39 cars behind it so traction tires and new batting is not a surprise but the grease issue is interesting and a small concern. Would like your feedback.

Can you add the super smoker to this unit?

Kevin 

This is an interesting comment.

Unless there's a typo and you meant to write 200 hours (vs. 20), I'm astonished that people would think 20 hours of running time between traction tire changes "is not a surprise".

If I had a running session of one hour per evening on weekdays only, that means I'd need to change the tires once per month.  Is this correct?  Is this what people routinely do with these locos?

I'm an old-school Postwar and MPC guy (with a little Prewar thrown in there, too).  I ran the wheels of my boyhood MPC locos (e.g., 8030 IC GP9) and the original traction tires are still in place. 

I have almost no experience with equipment manufactured since 1991.  Is this sort of maintenance normal?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

Just looking to learn,

Steven J. Serenska

Steven,

No, I meant 20 + hours of solid run time, no breaks pulling 39 cars., not 200. Typical run was from 9:00 am to 1:00 pm or 1:00 PM to close to 5:00 PM. Engine ran solid at the NJ Hi Railers last 3 shows across multiple lines, multiple grades pulling Atlas, MTH, Lionel and Weaver coal cars.  

A few items, Atlas cars are super heavy die cast so this engine got a work out. Second, the grades on our layout tend to test traction tires. My new ES44's - the Santa Fe and BNSF and my CSX AC600's have had / requires traction tires replace - used them like the Allegheny but with more cars, 45 and most were Atlas and MTH. The larger and heavier cars require more effort. Nothing unusual here other than we run them a lot longer and harder at the club then at home. My GP40's got at the same time as the ES44's but I use them at home and look as good as the day I got it. On the other ha

The batting was burned because not enough smoke fluid was added during the runs. Minor issue.

This 20 + hours was the best QA done on a Lionel engine since we put the Big Boys on the layout and ran them like we did the Allegheny.

Honestly, this engine got the crap kicked out of it but was a hit at the show.

Kevin

Nice pictures Alex; thanks for posting!  Just wondered if there has ever been a post with similar pictures of the VL Bigboy? I have not had mine apart yet because there has been no need, but the day will come soon enough I guess.

Rod

Alex, I've never opened an engine in our five years in the hobby. I'm wondering how to go about greasing the gears you point out in the photo and what product would I use?   Any chance you've done a short video of the process? 

note - I'm asking more for my VLBBs, as one has a decent amount of run time.  Would be good to know how to check to see if they need greasing, how to do it and what to use. 

Thanks,

peter 

Alex has a Vision Line Big Boy that needs a tuneup too. Maybe he'll post some pictures of that too. 2 of the traction tire have been replaced on the Allegheny already. There is a very close tolerance between the traction tires and the brake shoe. When the traction tire starts to go bad it rubs on the brake shoe and jams and stalls the engine. The Big Boy seems to do better with traction tires pulling the same loads on the same layout.

Jim D.

Hello guys 

tomorrow I will take a look at Jim's BB and I'll let you guys know if it needs any grease in these areas. I will also post pictures of my findings 

Thanks, Alex 

Rod Stewart posted:

Nice pictures Alex; thanks for posting!  Just wondered if there has ever been a post with similar pictures of the VL Bigboy? I have not had mine apart yet because there has been no need, but the day will come soon enough I guess.

Rod

Never mind; did a search and found Alex' great review of a while back. More great work Alex!

Rod

Hello everyone 

 I started  maintenance work on a VL BB today. I had to replace a few smoke resistors and all batting in every smoke unit. 

As for the gearboxes they had very little grease in them, so I lubed them up. This engine has both gearboxes  accessible from the bottom, just simply unscrew the gearbox covers and add grease.  See photos below

I must say this engine is a work of art ,so well designed and  engineered. What a beautiful engine. 

If you should decide to open up this engine and work on your smoke units , please use extreme care. There's a lot going on inside these units   

Thanks for looking ,

Alex