A Potential Dream Layout On the Drawing Board...

Wow, that's awesome.  Need any help building it?  Are you sure you'll have enough operational interest?...  If I had a layout like that I'd never leave the office.  That is going to be fun. 

Wow, and you railroad will have how many employees working full time to keep it running?

David

 

That is quite a lot to look at!

 

I like the curving main lines.  Given the gentle curves and some of the switch configurations I am assuming you are using Ross switches and Gargraves track.  Is that correct?

 

You have vertically stacked yards.  How much height will you have between them to reach in to a lower level level yard track?

 

Related to the question above, what are your ruling grades?

 

What are your defining trains in terms of length and tonnage?  What is you longest car?  What is your largest locomotive?  Do you have any 10 car passenger sets?  Do you want to routinely run freight trains longer than your passenger trains?  Do you have any diecast freight cars?

 

I see a big roundhouse.  What does your motive power roster look like?  Do you have any brass locomotives?  How about diesels, do you have E or F unit sets or road switchers?

 

You are going to have some significant power needs.  Do you have all incandescent lights in your passenger cars?  They are power hungry.  Do you want conventional control capability or will you be all TMCC and/or DCS?  Do you want to go with power bricks, Z-4000s or ZW-Ls?

 

What would you like for switch controls?  You could go all remote with TMCC or DCS, have local buttons or have a central panel.

 

There are some significant reach in issues to consider.  The lumber mill and roundhouse tracks are 4 to 6 feet from the edge of the layout.  Trains will derail in those locations.  What will you do to rerail them? 

 

Could you tell us a little more about how this layout will integrate into your work space?

 

As Susan implies, this is a big project.  What kind of help will you have to build and operate it?

 

You have done a ton of work so far.  And you are doing the right thing by asking for some more sets of eyes to look at the railroad now before you cut any lumber.  Some constructive criticism might save you significant time, expense and headaches in the long run.

 

I hope that you are having fun with much more to come on this project.

Hi David. Fantastic plans!

 

I'm a real neophyte, still working on my first layout, so my thoughts are not as sophisticated as those who have already commented on your plans. But I worry about what happens if you are running your empire from the middle of the layout and something derails way on the outside (for instance, you are in the middle section and something derails on the far left on the light purple line)? Does this mean you have to up the one staircase and down the spiral staircase, "re-rail" your wayward loco, and then go back up the spiral staircase and then down the main staircase to continue? That would get old for my knees (although maybe wonders for my conditioning!).

 

Also, it looks like a long reach in some areas, more than 5 feet. Will you have access ports/panels? How will this work (access panels) with multiple levels? I always worry about this because my trains always pick the exact wrong switch to derail; I wind up walking around the perimeter of my layout to reach and "re-rail" my "misbehaver." I realize that most of your switches are on the perimeter, but ...

 

FWIW (maybe $0.02?)

 

Bruce

Here are some thoughts, in no particular order:
1.  The juxtaposition of a large coal mine and a city large enough to have a major passenger terminal seems, to me, visually jarring -- but I can think of some towns and cities that had coal mines within their boundries.

2.  The main freight yard and "through" freight trains are apparently operated on an 'out-and-back' basis to the reversing loop -- is that correct ?  Are most passenger trains operated the same way, and if so are the consists bidirectional ?  Or do you just intend to run almost all psgr trains "clockwise" ?
Where are the passenger locos serviced, if at all ?

3.  Re the staging / storage tracks on the lowest level -- I can understand backing down into storage [ John Armstrong ! ] but that curvature with truck mounted couplers and heavy cars might be 'interesting'.  I think I'd test this concept "full size" first.

4.  How exactly do loaded log cars get to the lumber mill ?  Does the log train have to go to the yard first ?   How do loaded lumber cars "go out to the world'?

Rgds, SZ

Hi David

 

I am sorry to hear that your father has been ill.  Thanks for the well though out and detailed reply.  Given the detail of your plan and original post I figured we would all hear back from you when you had the time.  Based on the additional details you have given us I'll offer a few more things to think about as your time allows.

 

The Atlas track system will present some challenges to your plan.  The Atlas sectional curves with 4.5 inch spacing was fine with scale Hudsons but is in adequate for articulateds like Challengers and Yellowstones.  Your articulateds would be limited to the outside main track only or you would have to run as a single track main line when operating articulateds.  Six in centers are the universal requirement for curves on double track mains with big steam or electrics and scale passenger cars.  Atlas presents a further challenge since their flex track is not very flexible and several inches of each piece tends to be lost to breakage when bending it.  Going all Ross/Gargraves or Scaletrax are the best alternatives when planning to use a large amount of flex track.

 

Sixteen inches of vertical separation is O.K (not spacious but O.K.) if that is the actual distance between the bottom of the upper level benchwork and the lower level rail head.  Limited vertical clearance will accentuate reach in difficulties.  Two to three percent grades are acceptable with most modern traction tire equipped locomotives as long as you do not have a lot of diecast freight cars or otherwise plan to run very heavy trains.  A great way to plan for operational success is to plan on a standard length and tonnage of train.  For many of us a 10 car scale passenger set plus E or F units is the defining train for length.  That 10 car passenger train is equivalent to about 20 scale steam era freight cars.  Atlas, Lionel and MTH plastic 40 foot scale box cars all weigh between 15 and 20 ounces each.  A twenty car train of cars like that equally about 1000 scale tons.  A pair of traction tire equipped diesels (4 motors total) will pull this train up a 2% grade and will likely get it up a 3% grade as well.   An MTH USRA light Mikado will handle a 20 car freight train in a 2% or 2.5% grade although I'm not so sure how it will do at 3%.

 

You might want to consider working some diesel ready tracks near the roundhouse or elsewhere.  That would help reduce the number of times you take locomotives on and off of the layout, never a fun task especially fit tethered Diesels.

 

Bricks are a reliable and economical way to go if you do not need conventional throttles.  AIUs with Tortoise switch machines are also an excellent  option.

 

If you haven't already seen it you may be very interested in the Northwest Trunk Lines. 

 

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/2415514336616285

 

It is a very large layout with some substantial similarities to your project.  The NWTL is built with Scaletrax plus 10 switches built with Scaletrax rail hand laid to Ross curved switch patterns.  Maximum grades are 2.5%.  It has a single track main line with 1200 scale foot (300 inch) passing sidings.  It has Tortoise switch machines with AIUs for switch control.  The NWTL passenger car fleet has been converted to LED lighting.  Control is all DCS and TMCC/Legacy with MTH bricks for power.  The NWTL has several advanced features with a PC used to operate the room lighting and provide a GUI for the layout's control panel.

 

The NWTL is being built by my brother Dave Hikel and his crew at Hikel Layouts and Trains.  I'll keep an eye on this thread and see how your project develops.  If you would like to contact Dave directly you can do so at

hikelogauge@gmail.com

 

You have put a great deal of consideration into this design so far.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Ted