A word about BTO (Built to order)

Heck, I bought a '69 Z28 12 years ago sight unseen and a '78 Z28 sight unseen 9 years ago.

I have no problems whatsoever about buying a model train in the same manner. I don't even think twice about it.

Then you are probably in the wrong segment of the market for trains.  Once you get to the upper segments of any potential collectable area, most items are bought sight unseen.  Anyone who has bought a new Ferrari, Lamborghini, or even an upper end Porsche probably never saw the car until they picked it up.  I bet the same thing for some of the limited art where only a few hundred copies are made.

Say the Rail King engines are equal to the average car and we will say that the $325 engine is equivalent to a car costing $32,500.  With this comparison, a $2000 BTO engine would be a $200,000 car.  If you buying a car costing this much, you would be lucky to see one in person much less being able to even drive it.  Heck, try to test drive any car over $50,000 and see what happens.

If you want to see it first, you better stay with the Rail Kings, Williams, RMT, and the Lion Chiefs.  People buy many things sight unseen and this appears where many such purchases are heading.  When you are buying high end, you are buying on reputation and one should do their research before buying.

I don't have any problems with buying trains this way.  With the market having limited quantities for almost everything, you either buy early or probably have to go looking on the used market.   I like the Atlas Gundersons but to get them new, you have to pre-order.  One can barely even find used ones on the market

Holy smoke!  There are some drama queens here.

Grown men are acting like little forum school girls over BTO.  

If you guys were polar bears, you'd gripe about it being cold.  If you won the lottery, you'd gripe about paying the tax.

BTO is the new reality if you buy Lionel.  Face reality.  Either buy or don't, none of us care.

If you want to cry over it, call Lionel or e-mail them.   

The rest of us are tired of listening to your opinion of BTO or your 'knowledge' of the parts program.

I'm all for sharing ideas on this forum-we need a another daily thread about BTO, China vs Made in America, or shipping schedule delays to complete the week.  

It's ok not to take toys too serious....

Can't even blame it on a full moon! 

I a modern world does a hound dog e-bay at the full moon?

>>>It's ok not to take toys too serious....<<

So I take it you wouldn't be too upset if the front tire fell off your new car at delivery?

Maybe I missed something... When did a $1000+ scale model become a toy?

Joe

You had already seen them, just not the condition these two used ones were in. Not the same as shelling out $70,000 for a 2015 Z-28 not knowing how it will look or if it will have parts falling off of it when they unload it.

I agree Brian.

And using pre-orders as an example, some dealers like Nassau Hobby only require a 10% down to pre-order.

In the scheme of things where people are buying $1000+ trains, it is hard to imagine anyone complaining about lost interest earned on a purchase such as BTO or Pre-Orders when they just plunked down $1,000 on a expensive toy!

There used to be an old saying in sales that when a customer says they "dont have any money", that means they "do have money, they just dont have it for you (the salesman).

Lionel is a smart company to do this, it helps the dealers and Lionel to not get stuck with excess inventory.

Stronger dealers and train company's like Lionel and MTH keeps us model train folks happy.

I will confess though, if I walk into any type of store and ask for something, I get ticked if a store tells me "But we can order it".

I can do that myself on the internet and do not need them to do it for me after I wasted gas, time, and a trip.

However, just like high end PC's they are mostly build to order, and any PC geek or power gamer would never think of buying one they could not BTO.

Thus, BTO for high end trains makes sense to me.

For me though...BTO really is not for me, as I do not buy high end models because the curve radius is too big for my layout.

But that is just my situation.

Martin H

"The customer gets a discount off of MSRP.  If he waits and tries to buy an "extra" from a dealer after they are shipped, he will have to pay more."

The advent of car leasing has actually raised the MSRP of a automobile above it true street value. So, You state there is a advantage in getting a discount on a MSRP that may be "Jacked Up" in the first place? 

Lionel may be fair on their pricing. But, the policy is a shame..

BTO, ....If the product is defective-return it for a refund via the dealer or Lionel...

How about refuse the engine for the actually price it cost to manufacturer....we can have derivatives in the train hobby...Just like the stock market.

Really???  

In case you haven't looked at your bank statement recently, this ain't the 1980's anymore. Most banks aren't even giving 0.5% interest nowadays, so that $1,000 you're keeping there for the year is only "earning" less than $5 -- which you've probably spent a dozen times this month already for a latte at Starbucks.  

David

hahahaha. Toy trains are not must in life so spending any money on them is not being responsible ... Regardless on how much money you have..

I'm also one of the guys who has no problem with BTO. If they make a piece that I like I preorder it. I make payments on it, and its paid for by the time it has arrived. If it gets cancelled I put the credit to something else. Yeah it sometimes sucks having  the money tied up, but I have been very, very happy doing it this way. Have been doing it this way since I began buying trains on my own right after high school.

Bill

Wow, two pages of carping over a business policy MTH had had in place for years.  Just because an item is catalouged it isn't a sure bet that it will actually get made--look at how many items that MTH has cancelled over the years due to lack of preorders.  I have always said that if you like an item in a catalogue preorder it to give it the best chance of getting made and get the preorder price.  Find a reputable dealer that does not require a deposit, if that bothers you.  I passed on an item just once and have yet to find it years later on the secondary market so I always practice what I preach.  Enjoy your trains, regardless of what color box they came in!

Until they are 1:1 scale, they're all toys.  I own a few.

As far as BTO:  I like it.   It gives me a better chance of having a cataloged higher end item made.

It's the same way for me with real cars. Just as Lee mentioned.   If I want a special edition, limited run automobile, I sure as heck better put a deposit on one if I want one.  

In what is a niche of a niche hobby, BTO makes sense for the upper end of the items.

I have bought two vehicles in the last two years and haven't noticed this.  When I have priced a new car and a one or two year old of the same model, the new car was what I would expect the price to be.

I actually was able to negotiate the price down on both vehicles to less than what a one year old (used) model would cost.

Jim