Adding TMCC to Williams Scale GG-1; What's involved?

Sure it's possible.  My choice would be the ERR Cruise Commander and RailSounds Commander.  Boxcar Bill in the forum here has a discount deal on that package for $185.  For diesels, it's a very easy kit to install.

The hardest part will be removing the electronics from the old engine.  There is so much room in the GG1 you will not trouble installing!

The electronics are a cinch to take out of the old (soon to be dummy) engine, It's just that this will be my very first conversion and I was looking for a step-by-step on how to install the cannibalized TMCC board in the Williams circuitry. I have heard many say it's easy and was just looking for a quick step-by-step. Where would the program/run switch go?

The ERR web site has detailed instructions and they are downloadable.  I picked up some wiring harness parts for an RC battery pack at a LHS so I would not have to cut the Williams wiring up to install the ERR board.  Williams went to mini molex connectors a few years back and I didn't want to cut these up.  

 

There is no fuel tank on a G so you will probably want to mount the Run/Program switch near the nose.  The truck frames are articulated and there is a lot of empty space up near the headlight stands so you can install the switch on the frame up there.  You may need to use a "nibbler" to make the cutout.  I'd also consider swapping out the light bulbs for LED's.

You are going to have to fly by the seat of your pants.

 

First before you gut the first engine.  Trace out the wires, make a diagram and mark where the wires go.  This will make it easier when you put the electronics in the Williams.  Do this for the Williams also.  That way a couple years from now when you want to use the E-unit you know which wire goes where. 

 

Hook the wires to the appropriate places. 

 

As for the program switch you are going to have to make the hole for it.  Drill a hole the size of the part of the switch that moves.  Use a file to make it square and large enough the switch can move back and forth.  Once that is done then mark and drill the holes for the screws to hold it in place.

 

Gene Anstine

In order to replace the light bulbs with LED's you need to install a resister because the LED's draw so little voltage that they won't light up.

I just take a picture of the existing wiring for retracing my steps.  Of course, I can't imagine wanting to go back to the E-Unit from TMCC...

 

For LED lighting using the ERR TMCC boards, you do have to add an extra component, a 470 ohm resistor directly across the light outputs.  This is because the R2LC lighting circuit senses if there is no load and doesn't apply voltage.  Also, for LED lights, you need a diode and a resistor, not just a resistor.  Note also that the lighting circuits output a negative voltage in respect to track common, so the LED polarity has to be reversed from what seems "logical".

 

For the GG-1, you can also use the smoke output for cab lights or strobe lights if desired, since it has no smoke.

Cannibalized TMCC board?  What are you installing?

Actually David, you also need a load resistor across the lighting outputs.  The R2LC doesn't sense anything there if you use an LED, and the triac won't fire and turn on the lights.

 

Yes, you do indeed need a series resistor, and the diode for reverse voltage protection.  You can use one diode in a common return path for the forward & reverse lighting outputs.

 

You can certainly use pre-made LEDs, I prefer to wire my own, cheaper and I have exactly the configuration I need.

You can get a bayonet mount equivalent LED or you can get the Evan designs LED's with the resistor/bridge rectifier built in.  

 

This is a Williams EP-5 chassis that has an ERR DC commander (I'm not a big fan of cruise control) and a Plastruct led holder that fits inside the lamp socket.  Instead of chopping up the existing Williams wiring I got some wiring harness material for RC control that mates with the Williams modular connectors.  This also allows for a relatively painless switching of series/parallel wiring of the motors since the tail ends of the harness are what will go to the ERR board.

 

If you can get the wiring harness components you can pull the ERR board at a later date and still put the loco back to something closer to the way it came from the factory.

I like to mount the individual LED's right at the point to be lighted, I feel it gives me a much better result.  It takes more time, but I feel it's worth it.

If your engine has odyssey, you will need to install the motor encoder on the williams motors. That involves pulling and installing the flywheels. If you use the tmcc from the S2 you could use the cruise "M" for odyssey diesel to replace the DCDS, then you would not need to pull the flywheels. The best thing, in my opinion, would be to install a Cruise Commander and RS4 from ERR. For the LED's I would use Evans Design, they are prewired and work well with the CC.

 

Bill

Didn't know that John. The ERR boards have a CV output so it's not a problem for lighting but it's nice to know because you can buy cheap low end engines off the bay just to get the TMCC boards.

David

The ElectricRR electronics have the load resistor on board, you only need a series resistor with the LED.

I know the standard R2LC requires the resistor, I guess that's what I'm remembering.

 

Strike that comment from my previous post.

 

Don't the lights reverse polarity from the R2LC under certain conditions? 

quote:

I like to mount the individual LED's right at the point to be lighted, I feel it gives me a much better result.  It takes more time, but I feel it's worth it.

 

Those are just replacements for the head lights.  They're very directional.

Chuck, I'm referring the the markers and number boards, I put an LED directly behind them.  For the ones that I can replace with a 2mm or 3mm LED, I do that.

RTV and/or hot glue is your friend.

John: I'm looking to install the board that I'm "cannibalizing" from the S-2. As in, the board I'm taking out of that engine in order to make it a dummy. I'd rather not spend $185 when I already have a board.

 

Boxcar Bill: The engine does have Odyssey so thank you for the tip. I'm sure I'll have more questions when I attempt that.

 

Everyone: All this talk about LEDs and I have no plans to do that anyway lol. I am actually not all that fond of LED headights. I always thought the regular bulbs were more prototypical.

 

Nick the problem withe trying to recycle the odyssey motorcontrol board into another locomotive is you will have either stop or full speed, as you have no tach sensor, you will need to order a cruser commander M  or find a non odyssey motor control board to replace the Odyssey motor control board, next question I would have, was your GG1 converted with an ALCO prime mover, your sounds will be incorrect.  I can look thru my sound boards, I may have an electric sound board we could swap.

 

I purchase alot of 2nd hand electronics to place inside of other locomotives.

My original goal was to add the TMCC board ONLY. No Railsounds or Odyssey, and now I will indeed drop the Odyssey idea again. I guess it goes back to my original question, is it possible to install the TMCC board ONLY?

The cheapest route is to install strictly the DC Commander, that's around $60-70.  You can still do directional headlights, etc. but you'll have no sound and no cruise control.

 

As far as the RailSounds, you can add a cheap motherboard and use the existing RS boards from that locomotive package to add sound if desired.

John, as I've said before I already have the TMCC board, just out of another locomotive. I'm not looking for Railsounds or smoke or odyssey or headlights or LEDs or anything like that, I simply seek to get that TMCC board in the Williams GG1 so I can run it on my command loops.

Like I said, you have an Odyssey setup, you can't use that DCDR-S in a non-Odyssey locomotive, you'll need a standard DCDR.  Installing a new Odyssey flywheel and sensor is probably over the top here.  You obviously don't have to use the sound parts, but you do need the DCDR in order for this to work.

But what boxcar Bill said is your board uses odyssey so it has a tach reader like a MTH PS2 engine . The flywheel for the S2 has little bar codes on it that the sensor reads for speed. The ERR boards don't use a tach reader they use motor feedback to regulate speed so unless you install the tach reader and flywheel from the S2 your going to be calling your GG-1 Mr. jack Rabbit. So you have a little more to do than simply swapping wires.

David

Ah, I understand now. I thought I could've just used the TMCC board, didn't realize all the other stuff went with it.

You can use the motherboard and the R2LC, but you need a different motor driver.  That's what I'm talking about.

 

Of course, since you have the RailSounds boards, you can have sound on the cheap as well, I'm assuming the motherboard you have out of the S2 has sound boards as well.  You can buy the GG-1 sound chips for $30 from ERR.

 

I know... I know... you don't want sound.

 

Or LED's

Coarse you may be better off with



David