Advice for upgrading a CAB-1

Well to upgrade, is going to be hard since nothing is being produced at the moment.  If you can find a used Legacy 990 or a cab1L system at a very high price.  Base3 which will allow you to run your trains with you’re phone is coming but when who knows.  

as for your cab1 remotes, use Vinager to clean the terminals.  Battery acid is not actually acid but high in PH, hence, the word alkaline battery

I run a fairly large layout with four Cab 1 controllers, never found it necessary to upgrade. They run the trains fine after all these years. The Cab 1s are pretty robust, should be fine once you clean up the contacts.

Thank you so much!! I cleaned up both CAB-1 controllers. I a train on the track, powered up, the lights came on the engine, it made sounds, but did not respond to controller when I hit ENG and its #.  I tried it with three different engines, same response.   Either: 1) both CAB-1 are fried (I will sandpaper the connections again), or 2) some wire came loose somewhere such that the engines respond to the track power, but not the CAB-1.  It has been too long since I set it up.  Is there an obvious error or missing wire?  Thank you again so much. 

Superwarp1: Thanks for the suggestion about the vinegar!  Nothing is being produced now?!?  I have been out of touch.  Is this short term or long term?

Someone on the forum made new battery connections with strips of metal for their Cab1.

There should be two lights on the Command Base, one to show it is receiving power, and a second to show it received any command from any remote. Make sure that light is blinking when you issue commands from the Cab1. This is a divide-and-conquer tactic, is the problem between the Cab1 to Base, or the Base to the engine, or inside the engine.

I have a particularly old Cab1 I picked up in an eBay auction that when I spin the dial, the light on the Command Base may or may not work, might start working if I smack it, pretty sure there is something loose inside it. Someone else said try wiggling the crystal, I did, it worked for a while, but its back to acting up. I have two more remotes so its not a big issue for me.

@sandysimon posted:

Nothing is being produced now?!?  I have been out of touch.  Is this short term or long term?

It's been a long term thing IMHO. But the replacement for the older TMCC/Legacy control systems, called the "Base3" is due at the end of the year.  The Cab-2/Legacy 990 system hasn't been produce since at least 2017 which is when I had started looking for one and was just waiting for my local dealers to stock one.  Apparently there were some dealers that had a few units around the country but there was really no way to know that since Lionel doesn't list the stock that dealers have.

About 3 years ago (?) Lionel announced that the Cab-2 and Legacy Base (990) and the Base-1L were discontinued, and then there was a run on them. I called around to every dealer in probably a 300 mile radius and located one. Many others did the same. Shortly after, no dealers had them any more and they started showing up on the big auction sites for $1000+. They've been hovering around that price (even used) for that price ever since.

The Base3 has been delayed due to parts shortages, but the current projections are late this year, early next.

Edit: Just checked and the current estimate from Lionel is mid February 2024.  https://www.lionelstore.com/Lionel-Base3

@rplst8 posted:

Edit: Just checked and the current estimate from Lionel is mid February 2024.  https://www.lionelstore.com/Lionel-Base3

That's the projected ship date, so even if they make that, you won't see them for another month.

@sandysimon posted:

Thank you so much!! I cleaned up both CAB-1 controllers. I a train on the track, powered up, the lights came on the engine, it made sounds, but did not respond to controller when I hit ENG and its #.  I tried it with three different engines, same response.   Either: 1) both CAB-1 are fried (I will sandpaper the connections again), or 2) some wire came loose somewhere such that the engines respond to the track power, but not the CAB-1.  It has been too long since I set it up.  Is there an obvious error or missing wire?  Thank you again so much.

The fact that it immediately started making sound means it's not seeing the command base TMCC signal, so that's where to start.

• Check to see if you hear a faint chirp when you press keys on the remote.
• Check that the command base track wire is connected to the outside rail of the track.
• Check that the command base is plugged into a properly grounded outlet and the green power light is on.
• Check that the red light blinks on the command base when you spin the big red knob on the controller.

@sandysimon posted:

Is there an obvious error or missing wire?

Tell us how you have your Command Base powered... where is it plugged in and which AC adapter / wall wart are you using?

Thank you so much for all the suggestions.

First, GunRunner John:

• Check to see if you hear a faint chirp when you press keys on the remote.
  • answer: For one of the two CAB1 I hear a faint chirp.  I also see red light flash on teh command base with that CAB1 (not with teh other.
• Check that the command base track wire is connected to the outside rail of the track.
  • I do not have the "TrackWire" connected to the outside rail - I never did.  When I do connect it to the outside rail, only the running lights turn on.  Not the headlights.  When I disconnect the track wire, then the headlights come on and I hear the sounds.  That could be the result of another unit plugged into my command base (see photo).  Is this the source of the problem?
• Check that the command base is plugged into a properly grounded outlet and the green power light is on.
  • Good point.  Yes, it is a properly grounded outlet and I have the command base and each of the power stations grounded together on the same outlet.
• Check that the red light blinks on the command base when you spin the big red knob on the controller.
  • Yes.

Some extra information:

- When I first turn on the system, a GG1 I have runs around 3 ft and stops.

- A Kline TMCC locomotive just starts running and does not respond to the controller.  I tried to put it in program mode, turned it on, pressed "BOOST" "ENG" and then a two number code to assign it.  No sign of life.  When it put it back in RUN mode, it once again races along.

Rob:

When I built the house 20 years ago, I made sure that all outlets were properly grounded, and I use one power strip which has the four powerhouses adn the command base (see picture 2).

IllinoisCentral, Thanks!  Apparently one of the CAB1 is not communicating with the base, but the other one is.

I just spend another SIX hours redoing things.  This is embarressing for many reasons including that I am a scientist who has built a lot of my own electronic equipment! (but I was younger then).

Thanks for any other suggestions . Alas, I have to head back to NYC now.  But I will be back on the trains on Friday out here in the Poconos.  This coming Sunday I'm having 20 people from my lab over and I was hoping to get it all running again. Thanks,
Sandy

You MUST connect the track post to the outside rail, otherwise you'll never get things running!

@sandysimon posted:

• Check that the command base track wire is connected to the outside rail of the track.
  • I do not have the "TrackWire" connected to the outside rail - I never did.  When I do connect it to the outside rail, only the running lights turn on.  Not the headlights.  When I disconnect the track wire, then the headlights come on and I hear the sounds.  That could be the result of another unit plugged into my command base (see photo).  Is this the source of the problem?

You absolutely need the "U Post" on the Command base connected to the outside rail.

@sandysimon posted:

• Check that the command base is plugged into a properly grounded outlet and the green power light is on.
  • Good point.  Yes, it is a properly grounded outlet and I have the command base and each of the power stations grounded together on the same outlet.

First of all, as several others have already said, that binding post marked 'Track' and 'U' in your first picture, which is the antenna output, must be connected via a single wire to the outside rail, and the outside rail must be electrically continuous around the layout. The whole thing, the antenna lead and the outside rail, form one-half of the antenna system needed to operate TMCC/Legacy.  Although it may seem to work somewhat as-is it will not work well enough to get the locomotive around even a simple loop of track without that antenna connection in place.

If/when it comes on is the headlight on steady, or is it flickering?  If it's flickering then you have a poor signal, which is tied to this iffy antenna situation. 

Next, what do mean by "command base and each of the power stations grounded together on the same outlet".  By power stations are you referring to the three PowerHouse 180's in the second picture?  These do not have a connection to earth ground.  Their input power cords do not have a ground pin to mate with the corresponding ground hole on the electrical socket into which they are plugged, whether on the wall or on a power strip.

On the other hand, on their output side, you could have one of the two output leads from each one connected to a common point, which you may be calling "ground".  (If so it's better to call this "common" so as not to get it confused with earth ground, to which this common point must not be tied in order for Cab-1/Base-1 to work correctly, especially if its already tied to the outside rail as well.)

It may be helpful here to back up one step and set up the Cab-1/Base-1 to connect to a single 3' stretch of isolated track, on a separate workbench or table for instance, in order to check out your connections and getting things to function correctly before putting everything back on the layout and trying to fire it up.

Mike

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You MUST connect the track post to the outside rail, otherwise you'll never get things running!

Thanks so much.  Alas, once I attach the U to the outside rails, only the running lights turn on - not the head lights or the sound.

I will try that on Friday.  Any suggestions on what to try next? 

What is plugged into the RS232 port of the command base and where do those wires go?  Perhaps it's just my ignorance speaking but I've never seen anything plugged into that port unless you are connecting it to a computer.  Just wondering if you are introducing some additional signal to your layout that is interfering with TMCC's function.

As others have said, connect the u post on the command base to the outside rail on the track.

Turn the command base on. Green Light on command base should be on.

Put a command engine on the track.

Turn on the transformer and set the voltage to 18 volts.

The engine should not make any sound as it has seen the command signal and will wait until you send it a command.

Now address the engine with the cab 1. It should wake up since you are talking to it.  Try to blow the whistle or horn using the cab1. If that works, turn the red dial and see if the engine moves. As you send commands, the red light on the command base should flash.

Let us know if any of these steps fail.

@Landsteiner posted:

What is plugged into the RS232 port of the command base and where do those wires go?  Perhaps it's just my ignorance speaking but I've never seen anything plugged into that port unless you are connecting it to a computer.  Just wondering if you are introducing some additional signal to your layout that is interfering with TMCC's function.

There is a device named TPC3000 that uses that port. What you’re seeing is not that. The device in the pic looks like an RS232 breakout device. For peace of mind, I’d remove it to determine if it’s causing problems.

Steve

@sandysimon posted:

Thanks so much.  Alas, once I attach the U to the outside rails, only the running lights turn on - not the head lights or the sound.

That’s because the engine is now in “command” mode. To start the engine, grab the remote and press ENG, then enter the ID of the engine on the numpad and then press AUX1.

The sounds should come up and all the lights will turn on.

@sandysimon posted:

Thanks so much.  Alas, once I attach the U to the outside rails, only the running lights turn on - not the head lights or the sound.

As pointed out previously, this is exactly what should happen!  Now if you address the locomotive, it'll come to life and operate normally.

It's OK for the PowerHouse bricks to get their power from the power strip, but for best signal propagation the Command Base-1 power supply should be plugged directly into the AC mains duplex outlet.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

First of all, as several others have already said, that binding post marked 'Track' and 'U' in your first picture, which is the antenna output, must be connected via a single wire to the outside rail, and the outside rail must be electrically continuous around the layout. The whole thing, the antenna lead and the outside rail, form one-half of the antenna system needed to operate TMCC/Legacy.  Although it may seem to work somewhat as-is it will not work well enough to get the locomotive around even a simple loop of track without that antenna connection in place.

If/when it comes on is the headlight on steady, or is it flickering?  If it's flickering then you have a poor signal, which is tied to this iffy antenna situation.

Next, what do mean by "command base and each of the power stations grounded together on the same outlet".  By power stations are you referring to the three PowerHouse 180's in the second picture?  These do not have a connection to earth ground.  Their input power cords do not have a ground pin to mate with the corresponding ground hole on the electrical socket into which they are plugged, whether on the wall or on a power strip.

On the other hand, on their output side, you could have one of the two output leads from each one connected to a common point, which you may be calling "ground".  (If so it's better to call this "common" so as not to get it confused with earth ground, to which this common point must not be tied in order for Cab-1/Base-1 to work correctly, especially if its already tied to the outside rail as well.)

It may be helpful here to back up one step and set up the Cab-1/Base-1 to connect to a single 3' stretch of isolated track, on a separate workbench or table for instance, in order to check out your connections and getting things to function correctly before putting everything back on the layout and trying to fire it up.

Mike

Mike:

Great Suggestions: When I get back to the trains on Friday I will setup an isolated track.  I will also make sure to attach the track wire to the common on the command base. 

I have one spot to which all of the outside rails are attached (in a star pattern, if that helps).   

What I was referring to as the "ground" is that each of the powerstations are all plugged into the same power strip - so they share a common electrical ground.

I can't remember what the RS232 connector was doing on the command control.  Is it general advise, that I should remove it?

Finally, when I had attached the common (outside rail) to the track wire connector on the base, the headlights went out and only the running lights were on.  I had tried to then program the locomotive.  However, thinking back on my trouble-shooting, that was BEFORE I realized that one of the two CAB1 controllers was not working.  I will try it again with the one that is "working" (My assessment of "working" is that a red light flickers on the command base when press buttons on the Cab-1 and there is a chirping sound.  On the 2nd Cab1, there is no response on the command base and no chirping sound).

Thank you all so much.   Maybe my lapses of knowledge will be useful guide for someone else who has to trouble shoot.   Is there a separate listing of "Trouble shooting" tips that I could contribute to (once I get things to work)?

Sandy

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

As pointed out previously, this is exactly what should happen!  Now if you address the locomotive, it'll come to life and operate normally.

Gunrunnerjohn,

Thank you.  I think (I hope) that I made a mistake.  When I attached the wire from "track wire" to the common that I have setup for the outside rails, the headlight went out. I tried then to address the locomotive, and no response.  But that was before I discovered that one of the two CAB1 were not working.  When I return to the Poconos on Friday (where I have my trains), I will immediate try your suggestion.  Hopefully it is my error.

(How my common is setup: I have a star pattern of 12 gauge wire running from a common point out to all of the outside rails).

Thanks,
Sandy

@rplst8 posted:

That’s because the engine is now in “command” mode. To start the engine, grab the remote and press ENG, then enter the ID of the engine on the numpad and then press AUX1.

The sounds should come up and all the lights will turn on.

Oh no!  I had pressed ENG and then the ID, and nothing happened.  I tried to press the whistle, etc.  I NEVER tried AUX1.  Could that have been the problem? 

First off, are you SURE you have the correct ID?  Did you reprogram one of the engines to insure that you were using the right ID?

@sandysimon posted:

Oh no!  I had pressed ENG and then the ID, and nothing happened.  I tried to press the whistle, etc.  I NEVER tried AUX1.  Could that have been the problem?

There are a few ways to start the engine in command mode. AUX1 is how I usually do it. I also think pressing 3 will do it after it was started once and shutdown.

Some engines will go directly to started with just any command, others seem to wait for the AUX1 or the 3 on the keypad to start.

Make sure the 4 batteries in the cab-1 are fresh as the red dial is the first piece to stop operating, hence at least one of the batteries are no good.
Also, the cab-1 that does not operate. Make the sure they batteries are ALL good. Next, I would pull out the crystal on top of the battery holder area and make the sure the contact points are clean and re-assert it.
As Gary has stated, make the battery contacts are clean.

Also, what is plugged into the computer port on the command base? Looks like a DB-9 cable that is used for the TPC or for the connection to a DCS system.

Have you tried giving your engine a different ID number, if you do, don’t forget to push the “set” button.  

THANK YOU ALL!.

- I attached the track wire post to the common.

- I disconnected the serial connector:.

Then I tried my first engine.  NOTHING. I changed the batteries in the CAB-1.  Still. nothing. I would program it, after press SET, switch it back from program to RUN.  The engine lights and sounds came on - BUT IT DIDN'T run.

Then I tried another engine. AND THIS WORKED.  And then a third engine AND IT WORKED.  Went back to the first - still don't have it working.   Also, one of the CAB1 starting giving spontaneous multiple CHIRPING sound.  is it on its last beeps?  Any recommendations on repair steps.

THANKS!!  Alas, the engine, which used to pull four passenger cars up, was stuttering.   I have cleaned the track.  Is it possible the rubber tires on the engine need replacing after a decade of disuse?   

Finally, any recommendations on a switch engine to use for controlling my ATLAS switches?  The Z-Stuff DZ2500 I have keep giving me problems.   I want something I can control by TMCC.

THANK YOU ALL.

Alas, I now have 3 engines not responding.  There are other switches besides the PROGRAM/RUN. such as a Rail/Signal.  How should that be set?

THanks!

@sandysimon posted:

Alas, I now have 3 engines not responding.  There are other switches besides the PROGRAM/RUN. such as a Rail/Signal.  How should that be set?

THanks!

Rail/Signal just changes the types of sound it will play. Put it on Rail for all sounds.

Thanks rplst8,

Any thoughts why an engine seems to program OK, then when I put it in Run, when I ENG - the number - AUX1, it lights up, starts sounds, but the engine doesn't move.  Now I have 3 that move and 3 that don't (obviously each programed with their own number).  Thanks

Are you powering down the track after programming and waiting 10 seconds before you move the switch to the RUN position?

Try running the not-working engines in conventional mode with the command base powered off.

If you unplug the command base from the electrical outlet, those non-running command engines should run like a regular conventional-type engine with a transformer.
It could be the 3 that won’t run in command mode, there might be some loose wires/plugs inside.
What are the 3 engines that give you problems?