Alternative to the 180Watt Lionel Transformer

I have always said that if you are running command control (TMCC, Legacy, or DCS) you do not need a fancy and expensive transformer. All you need is a stable source of 18 volts AC with enough current capacity. That is exactly what you have found in that $57 Antek AS-4218.

It’s not pretty, but it will do the job.

I recommend you think about better circuit protection than the typical thermal circuit breakers.  One excellent choice is the Airpax PP11-0-10.0A-OB-V, this is a zero delay magnetic circuit breaker.  Add the 1500W 33.3V TVS at Digikey across each output and you have a quality power source.

With a voltmeter and ammeter to monitor the output.  I find them immensely helpful.

@Dougklink posted:

With a voltmeter and ammeter to monitor the output.  I find them immensely helpful.

Hard to imagine the voltage output is going to change much, but the ammeter would be quite useful.

True but if there was a short in some of the windings in the transformer it could.  Also could be defective from the factory.  With the cost of new locos seems like cheap insurance.  Plus they look cool:-)

@Dougklink posted:

True but if there was a short in some of the windings in the transformer it could.  Also could be defective from the factory.  With the cost of new locos seems like cheap insurance.  Plus they look cool:-)

OK, I buy the cool factor.

I don't think a short in the windings is a realistic reason for the meter, the transformer would be really overheating enough that the smell would alert you!   Also, measuring the transformer output voltage once during construction would eliminate the issue of a factory issue.

However, that reminds me of a precaution with this project.  Be SURE to put a circuit breaker in the PRIMARY of the transformer.  This will any internal issues like a defective transformer or the internal wiring issues in the box.

Gunrunnerjohn,

                My plan is to have a circuit breaker on the primary and then a circuit breaker for each of the outputs. These are cost effective considering the alternative smoking one of my engines.

idea-thinker

Yep, I took the lazy way out for my power.  OTOH, I bought all my PH180's when prices were modest, I paid from $50 to $75 each for all of them.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, I took the lazy way out for my power.  OTOH, I bought all my PH180's when prices were modest, I paid from $50 to $75 each for all of them.

Ah yes…..the Good Old Days! 😭

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, I took the lazy way out for my power.  OTOH, I bought all my PH180's when prices were modest, I paid from $50 to $75 each for all of them.

Nice looking wiring job.

I also purchased about ten of them for about $50 or so dollars years ago but now they are just to costly buy. This is the reason I am going down a the path of creating my own equivalent. I need about 14 more PH-180's to complete my layout since I am going to be running 50 or more trains. So seven of these new transformers are the equivalent of the 14 PH-180's. I have created my on version of the TPC-400 which has 2 circuits on 1 circuit board to control the trains. Just like the PH-180's the TPC-400's are going out of site.

idea-thinker

I'd love to see the track plan running 50 or more trains!

Gunrunnerjohn I assume the 4 remote commanders at the top of your setup are your constant watchdog signal generators?

@Dougklink posted:

Gunrunnerjohn I assume the 4 remote commanders at the top of your setup are your constant watchdog signal generators?

Correct, I put them on every TIU channel, that way I don't have to deal with that issue anywhere on the layout.

@idea-thinker posted:

Nice looking wiring job.

I also purchased about ten of them for about $50 or so dollars years ago but now they are just to costly buy. This is the reason I am going down a the path of creating my own equivalent. I need about 14 more PH-180's to complete my layout since I am going to be running 50 or more trains.

GAD!  You'll need a lot of power as well, did you contact the power company to have them run extra lines to the house?

gunrunnerjohn;

           Our layout is 40x50 in size and I have installed a separate 60A electrical service in the floor spaced around the room to run the trains. I am actually placing these power supplies all round the room in groups with the other electronics rather than having it all grouped into one area. Saves a lot on the amount wiring needed.

The photos below show the volume of the layout and the reason for the need of these transformers.

idea-thinker

That's obscene!   What century do you think it'll be done?

This is a fantastic layout. Mine is 22X40 and yours is more than twice the size. I have 3 TIU’s powered by 11 Lionel 180 bricks and one MTH Z 4000 for a conventional line. I bought my 180 bricks based on a GRJ suggestion a long time ago when they were relatively cheap. The only issue I had with them was the polarity on some of the bricks were backwards. Easy fix.

Do you have easy access to all of your track area? That was the one mistake that I made. I have 2 small areas that can be difficult to reach . The other areas I can reach with pop ups but as you get older even the pop ups become a little difficult.

It looks like you are using Cargraves   track and Ross switches. Excellent choice. You may want to consider the Circuitron tortoise slow motion switch machines instead of the DZ 1000 or DZ 2000 switch machines. The DZ2000 can be especially troublesome but I found that I had to use a couple of them due to their low profile for clearance .

I would also recommend that you check Millhouse River Studios website. They have some fantastic accessories.

Good luck on the layout and please post more pictures as you progress.

Thanks

Rich R

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's obscene!   What century do you think it'll be done?

I always wanted a large layout where I could run more than 50 trains at once so I am building it. I am designing the electronics and the software to manage it which is a real challenge. I have been in electronics for multiple decades so I am applying my knowledge to build this environment. It is not very feasible to run 50+ trains manually.

idea-thinker

That will be a thing to behold!

Idea-thinker, please keep us posted on your layout progress. I am following . What is the purpose for the large horizontal piece of plexiglass in the first photo? Is it temporary or permanent ?

Thanks

Rich R

@amtrack5899 posted:

Idea-thinker, please keep us posted on your layout progress. I am following . What is the purpose for the large horizontal piece of plexiglass in the first photo? Is it temporary or permanent ?

Thanks

Rich R

It is Lexan that is 3/4inch thick. I am going to landscape around it and under it so it looks like the trains running under the Lexan are in a cavern. The whole idea of this is to have trains running under your feet. I thought it would an interesting twist on things. It is interesting to watch people walk on it for the first time. They sort tip toe on it like they are not sure of their footing.

idea-thinker

That is a fantastic idea. I have used plexiglass for vertical windows so that you can see some of the trains running under the layout in various places . The kids love it.

The Lexon on the floor is a great idea.

Thanks

Rich R

Back to the original transformer, that transformer shown is capable of suppling over 22 amps at 18 volts, actually the volts drops to about 16.7 under full load, and while primary protection is good, a lot of time it is not the the most reliable in this situation.  Consider secondary protection since a track short has the capability of drawing enough current through the track and wheels to heat everything quickly to more than the biggest Weller soldering gun.  The duty cycle at full amps would be interesting to know, those secondary wires do not look like #12, so they will offer a bit or resistance at higher current, plus heat.

@CALNNC posted:

Back to the original transformer, that transformer shown is capable of suppling over 22 amps at 18 volts, actually the volts drops to about 16.7 under full load, and while primary protection is good, a lot of time it is not the the most reliable in this situation.  Consider secondary protection since a track short has the capability of drawing enough current through the track and wheels to heat everything quickly to more than the biggest Weller soldering gun.  The duty cycle at full amps would be interesting to know, those secondary wires do not look like #12, so they will offer a bit or resistance at higher current, plus heat.

Clearly, each output should have secondary protection, I don't think anyone disputes that.  My suggestion was to also protect the primary with at least a circuit breaker.  An internal short in the case or a shorted winding could draw a lot of power from the input power connection, all modern transformers have primary circuit protection.