American Flyer 346 reverse unit wiring

Here is another picture of the top of the reverse unit. Anyone that could post a picture would be greatly appreciated!

Hi, I have know experience with these early 2position units. But go to portlines.com look at the top of the page for repair clinic.. Scroll to steam engine wiring. You will see a wire diagram of the later 2 position reverse unit. They operate about the same way. This might help you in rewiring yours. I wil also send you some info to you email.

jake

I don't have any experience with this reverse unit. If it were mine I would get a Dallee reverse unit, a 4 amp version. The wiring is simple, and color coded. You attach one wire to each end of the field, and one wire to each of the brush holders. Another wire goes to the left side of the loco the other to the right. If you go to their website you will see the instructions, this will give forward, neutral and reverse. 

Milan thank you for the info you sent.

Luke I think you are right Dallee may be the way to go. I have spent several hours researching this reverse unit with no info what so ever. I am wondering if it is a AF reverse unit. I hate mysteries. 

That's a four-position in-cab reverse unit.  Gilbert installed them in a limited number 343 and 346 0-8-0 steam engines.  They can be a little tricky and cantankerous, but pretty cool once you get them working.  The very delicately sprung pusher-plate across the bottom which is attracted to the solenoid to drive the slider-plate on the side, for example, is one thing you need working right for proper operation.  If the spring in the hinge of the pusher-plate is still there and functional, then either some dry graphite or tiny amount of a light penetrating lubricant (CRC PowerLube) on the top and bottom of that hinge, the two crimped-over guides and central guide-post of the slider-plate can help that tiny little spring get the job done, but otherwise it is very weak and easily overwhelmed by mechanical resistance.  When that spring is missing or broken, I've improvised a short, very soft, conical spring between the push-plate and the solenoid.  That actually usually works better.  Please find attached a wiring diagram (pdf file) I drew up a few years ago while working on a 346 with one of these reverse units.  I hope that helps.  

Dave

These had problems and lots were converted to the 2 step units by Gilbert repair shops in the 50's.  I had a 243 that was converted and it worked fine.  Later I bought one with the 4 step unit discussed here and it works pretty good.  I think having one as it came from the factory is always best.  They hold their value better too.

Thank you Dave for your wonderful schematic. I did not think that the tender and engine are each separate grounds. I think similar to Bill in keeping equipment as built from the factory.  Very unique set up.

Thank all of you for your help!

You're welcome Stew.  Glad that helped.  Good luck with it.  Let us know (and perhaps even see with a video) how it goes.  Let me know if you need any help.  

BTW - the Dallee Universal electronic reverse unit is a good product and works well, especially in engines that you'd like to change directions with at very slow speeds (i.e. low voltages, e.g. less that 10VAC).  

Dave

I would use the Dallee unit and buy a four wire harness plus plug and Jack. You can find repro wire harness on eBay. Type in American flyer wire. You will find a seller from PA. I have used them and they are very well made. You will have to source a plug and Jack somewhere else. Maybe Portlines.com. Hope the engine comes back to life soon. Oh what does the motor look like (photo?). Buy the way I have the later version of the loco. It's the 21145. I have had it since 1959.

jake

I got the reverse unit working last night...for about 3 minutes. The coil wire coming from the inside magically broke. I am putting this reverse unit in the bad toys bin. 

I ordered a Dallee 4 amp reverse unit. I am putting it in the tender after I remove the air chime. I will run the four Dallee wires to a four prong male connector (XA10663) to the four prong female connector mounted on the back of the engine.  Will use a sock type tube to encapsulate the four wires to give me the AF look. Also added the AF "U" shaped weight into the tender. Will have to unground the smoke unit from the frame.

Thank you all for your help and guidance!!

Stew, nothing like the internal coil wire breaking to spoil an otherwise successful repair.  I applaud your effort to maintain authenticity,  but you'll enjoy the Dallee unit.  

Installed the Dallee 4 amp reverse board.  Their enclosed direction were easy and quick. Connected the Dalle wires to the AF 4 wire harness. I used the AF pins on the end of the harness to plug into the female engine 4 place connector.  Just make sure the brush wires are set up correctly if you want the engine to start in forward.

Sgaugian posted:

That's a four-position in-cab reverse unit.  Gilbert installed them in a limited number 343 and 346 0-8-0 steam engines.  They can be a little tricky and cantankerous, but pretty cool once you get them working.  The gravity dependent slider plate on the side, for example, is one thing you need working right for proper operation.  I've repaired them and still do.  Please find attached a wiring diagram (pdf file) I drew up a few years ago while working on a 346 with one of these reverse units.  I hope that helps.  

Dave

Precision Flyer Repairs -- quality S-gauge train servicing for over a decade

Great diagram. I only see where one solenoid wire goes. Where does the second solenoid wire connect to?

The other solenoid lead has no visible connection point, but it connects to the "live" metal body or frame of the reverse unit.  A small amount can be seen tucked under the base of the solenoid.  I think it was bared of its coating and pinched between the plastic frame of the solenoid and the metal frame of the reverse unit although internally there may be a more formal connection than that, there isn't one on the outside.  Hope that helps.  

Dave

Stew, I believe the loose pieces you show in your first photo are the parts that hold the brush holders in. Insulated piece under the metal piece. The wire connector probably went to the reverse unit coil.

PS Yes, the units are tricky, but can be made to be pretty reliable. The drop down bar does have a small spring on it that has to be "just so" to lower the bar, yet allow it to rise when the power is turned on.

Sgaugian posted:

That's a four-position in-cab reverse unit.  Gilbert installed them in a limited number 343 and 346 0-8-0 steam engines.  They can be a little tricky and cantankerous, but pretty cool once you get them working.  The very delicately sprung pusher-plate across the bottom which is attracted to the solenoid to drive the slider-plate on the side, for example, is one thing you need working right for proper operation.  If the spring in the hinge of the pusher-plate is still there and functional, then either some dry graphite or tiny amount of a light penetrating lubricant (CRC PowerLube) on the top and bottom of that hinge, the two crimped-over guides and central guide-post of the slider-plate can help that tiny little spring get the job done, but otherwise it is very weak and easily overwhelmed by mechanical resistance.  When that spring is missing or broken, I've improvised a short, very soft, conical spring between the push-plate and the solenoid.  That actually usually works better.  Please find attached a wiring diagram (pdf file) I drew up a few years ago while working on a 346 with one of these reverse units.  I hope that helps.  

Dave

Dave, Just wanted to thank you for this information and wiring diagram as I just picked up a nice 343 Switcher with the in-cab reversed unit.  First time seeing one and thinking 'that's different'.  Got my engine cleaned up, now wired right, and with a bit of lube on the hinge my engine is working once again.  Always great to find a post with just what one needs!  Thanks again.

- Bill

You're welcome Bill.  Glad to be of service and better still that your 343 is running well.  

Dave