Any one still design a layout by pencil?

I do, I find the design software to be s huge PITA to use. I don't use it enough to be good at it do I spend all my time trying to figure out how to do mundane tasks at which point I just grab a pencil

My layout was designed by pencil because:

• I simply don't trust those programs to be accurate (a pal of mine built benchwork from a program which had several curves wrong. Set him back by a month)
• They take longer to upload and get used to as doing the track plan to start with
• Some are pricey. And for likely one use? No, thanks.
• It's only for myself. How slick does a track plan have to be?

I am currently drawing up the representation of the layout with scenery (like you'd see in a magazine tour). It'll all be done by hand.

Me too!  When designing one layout per decade (give or take) I don't want to have to learn the layout design software.  I bought one package over 20 years ago and have tried a couple demos of others.  The learning curve isn't worth it to me.

 

If I was designing all the time, then it would be a different story.

I'm of the 'acoustic' school of drafting. Pencils and paper, and the ever important, eraser, they are my muse. I too find CAD and other such programs cumbersome, God bless those who can battle their way through them. I have generated tens of thousands of drawings the good old fashioned way with no desire to do so otherwise.

Pencil and paper for me

 

Clem k

I tried a couple programs, but it's just easier for me to sketch my ideas, then I lay out track on the floor so I can get an idea of how big it would actually be.  I picked up a track stencil once, but I don't think I was using it right, it was hard to know how to space sectional track

All paper and pencil for me. My layout is too large and complicated to draw with a computer. I can build it faster than I could draw it. I would also have to take it out to have it printed at any reasonable scale.

what's the matter, no confidence? ... i use a pen!!

I do.

I sketch up plans all the time.

Pencil, paper and a good straight edge, compass... maybe a French curve.  Still have all my drafting materials from past years, they do come in handy.  I, too, have given the programs a try... but really am quicker at design and making changes when performed by hand on paper.  Yes, the brave ones use a pen !!  LOL!!

Yes, found this old drawing in the files.

I started this layout in 1983 and about five major do overs.

Gary

• Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway

  Click pencil drawing to enlarge. 

Yep, it still works for me, followed by actual laying out of the track on the floor or table.

What is the average age of us pencil and paper guys?  I'm 59.  I used to be a draftsman back in the '70s when it was all pencil and mylar.

I'm 45. I went to art school and computers were just starting to be used at that time. The MACs had just come out. Nobody was doing this stuff then. Those lessons stayed with me for sure.

Hi Mark - I am 63.

     I started teaching High School Shop in 1974 and did that for about 35 years.

Industrial Education

My first teaching job was High School Drafting, in a small Michigan High School.

     Went on to teach Graphic Arts, AutoDesk / AutoCAD, and all the Adobe Products.

Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop. In a large Michigan High School and a Community College. 

     But I still like paper and pencil & Photoshop, still doing side jobs with Photoshop / InDesign.

Gary

• Cheers from The

I drew track plans with pencil and paper for decades until I got hooked on AnyRail, then SCARM. The 3-D imaging of SCARM allows three-dimensional planning which is a huge advance beyond 2-D planning IMO. I've used SCARM to draw out a number of magazine plans and they often don't work out well in 3-D because they didn't allow adequate space for elevation changes and the scenery just can't be made to look reasonable.

 

 This was one of my mini-layout brainstorms with SCARM.

 

A previous background in conventional drafting and geometry is certain to help with learning the newer track planning software programs, if you want to do more complicated plans. 

I'm 54 Mark. I took drafting back in high school, and loved it.

I'm 77, and when I graduated from college went directly to IBM, learned all about hanging
Chads, etc., but when computers hit the market I put away the pencils, LARGE erasers and pens and used the computer (had to). So I'm hooked on their use, although for track planning, there was a learning curve for SCARM before being able to use it to design any kind of a track plan. So no, I don't use a pencil. I like to know what track/switches and how many I will need as I design the layout. Bottom line is, I guess,  use whatever works best for you.

I love the hand drawn designs. They make it easy for me to convert to a computer layout.

 

They also communicate the builder's ideas well.

 

The computer's worth is that the result is an actual track plan, which would speed the build process. It's like having a coded map for a puzzle.

 

I usually start my own designs with a sketch. You can capture the flow and operational elements and then translate that to whichever track will be used.

 

So, I use both. paper and pencil for concept and computer for build.

 

 

I was a few years ahead of Elliot at the same middle school, but I didn't meet him until I started helping with his Dream-Nightmare layout some umpteen years later. That's a small world moment. No formal training for me, had to teach myself, a skill I used everyday for work.

i aways have ,and still do .also freelance putting track on the table and see what happens .heck,thats half the fun of building a layout. -Jim

Back in the day I inked my drawings, talk about a PITA. Still have three or four of these humidors...somewhere...

 

 

But you haven't lived until you've wrangle one of these contraptions...

 

 

Really fun when the ink pours out of the cup allover your just finished drawing

 

 

Elliot,

I took two years of drafting in high school.  I would have taken more, but they wouldn't let me.  I needed a well rounded education.  When I got the job as an draftsman, the manager told me my application form was what nailed it for me.  He said lettering was the part a lot of guys weren't as good at.  I still do halfway decent considering 4 carpal tunnel surgeries and arthritis.

 

The Leroy Lettering Kit!  Oh boy!  I haven't seen one in ages, but I never used one.  Maybe the industrial arts teacher showed one to us, but we didn't try it.

 

It is all a lost art!  Boy, don't we sound like a bunch of old fogies??

I saw several of them in junior high and high school and messed around with them. They worked pretty well for what they were intended for.

In commercial art school, we had to hand-letter everything. No computer lettering back in those days (there was a device that would letter onto photo paper, something incredibly clumsy, even then so we hardly ever used it). To this day, I can free-hand lettering pretty well.

For example, I did both of these in less than 5 minutes, based on the typeface the RR these spikes came from used back in the day:

Always - to me, a good well thought out sketch is all you need.  I use templates.  In reality, it all comes down to getting the track, all your switches, enough straights and curves and lay it out and cut it to fit.  Trying to figure it down to the piece is a waste of time and impractical.  Get a little extra of each and make it work.  That is a fun part.  I know some guys hate it when I say this, but over planning just gets you to the same point.  You still have to get the track and make it work.   Dirty hands will beat a computer plan every time.

Number 2 pencil freehand drawings on 8-1/2inch by 11 inch grid paper for layout, same drawings(copies) used for wiring schematics using colored pencils, grade elevations(2 to 2.5 degrees) on straight and curves sections including  vertical support locations solved using trigonometry, carpenters protractor and hand calculator.   

I'm 73, my first computer was the IBM 2 floppy & I like RR Track

 

Ken M

 

Not in the last 22 years.   I was one of the early ones to use rr-track.

LOVE IT.

In general, I can honestly say my patience is gone with constant computer program learning curves. Fogie-ness is setting in.

Played with a couple of trial track-plan progs, but I still have more fun doodling with the pencil and a few drafting tools.

Now try doing the same thing with a bow/ruling pen; now there's a drafting tool for a patient man! I still have mine; I break it out once in a while just to say, "Can anyone tell me what this does?"

I agree with most of the guys here to use a paper and a pencil. 

I learned drafting, machining and hydraulics while attending a technical high school which to this day has helped me immensely. 

Unfortunately this high school curriculum is no longer available. 

 

Sometimes depending on what your doing, simply using your eye works best. 

I've tried looking at different programs and found them all to be lacking to one degree to another. 

Mind you I use computer programs of various sophistication all day long.

The track programs simply need more work before they'll meet my needs.

 

As time wears on though, I imagine there will be a day in which such a program will come to market.

Firewood,

If you check out you tube there are several instructional video's showing how to use the bow/pen.

The Munoz Lines was designed by pencil and paper.

Munoz Lones ll will also be designed by pen and paper.

 

Less time.

Better design.

When I finally learn the program, I can be halfway to finishing the benchwork.

Anyway, it ain't rocket science. It's just a glorified dog bone.

 

No worries, I have used them and also said bad words about them now and again. I just threw that one in to show off some non-digital technology before it's forgotten

I still do a drawing in pencil, and then I take the drawings I like and use the Atlas Rightrack program to check the plan for real world compatability. When I first started drawing track plans it was hit or miss as to what would actually fit my given space, but with experience I've developed a better eye for what works and what doesn't.

 

Jeff C

Age 70. Pencil & paper. I bought the RR Track File but couldn't figure it out.

I too use pencil alot.  However, SCARM is well worth the learning curve when it comes to elevations.  But I have past CAD experience which makes it easier.  The program allows easy changes to effectively play around with decreasing the slope leading to yourvelevations.

 

I rely on the pencil for two main reasons...  First, if you draw on line ruled paper, to scale, it is a lot easier to transfer your sketch to the actual layout.  Also, since I scratch build turnouts, I end up frustrated with the available program turnouts.  Most of my turnouts are built into my available space and usually lack any straight sections.  I blend curves into curves.

 

That tool is used to hold ink to draw lines.  Remember ink?

 

Thanks...   Tom            2 rail O Scale

 

 "Do you still use pencil and paper or has everyone just been using programs?"

 

    I've tried programs but I can work faster with pencil and paper. Here's an S scale  layout I'm considering for my train room now.......DaveB