Anyone recognize this type of corrosion on loco trucks?

Is it TMCC with a battery for start-up\shut-down sounds? Looks like what an alkaline battery causes when they leak.

If that was an old Lionel F3, I'd say it was corrosion from a leaking horn battery that didn't get removed before getting stored in the attic. It definately looks like corrosion from coming in contact with a liquid, or the fumes from such a liquid, that doesn't like metal.

How long was it on the FasTrack cleaned with the "Simple Green"? It may be the fumes from that stuff started working on the trucks then, and it took a long time for it's action to become noticable. The leaky battery damage to old F3's doesn't show up for a while after the leak starts either.

I have been using Simple Green to clean unpainted train parts for years. Often I will use it straight from the jug.  I have never experienced the problems reported by some others on this board. Maybe its because I always thoroughly rinse the parts afterwards.

I'm going to clean it and then open it to see if the battery is okay, etc. 

Walt's Ghost found a new home.

Lionel....2004.....Oh..oh.

looks like battery residue

Lee, to me it looks like the efflorescence that sometimes appears on the side frames of postwar trucks.  In that case, just put a little Lionel lubricant or similar grease on the area and scrub it with a toothbrush.  It comes right off.

It does look like battery corrosion, see what happens if you put a drop of coca cola on it or a dap of wet baking soda. I know that stuff cleans battery terminals.

I think that was it.  I opened it up and there isn't even a battery inside: I may have removed it if it was ever there in some subsequent servicing.  Anyway, I could find no cause for the corrosion and no sign of it inside.  I used a bit of lubricant and a brush and it came off. the thing runs great.  I'll just watch it carefully in the future.

Glad that worked out for you Lee

clem

Lee,

Is the shelf made from pressure treated lumber? Copper sulfate used in the PT process near the metal may cause the efflorescence when the air becomes humid.

I know it's a bit late to be chiming in.  If the stuff was not hard or crusty, it may have been mold.  I have had hand tools do this if they are left for a long time after use.  Body oils and sweat from hands plus any other grease or oil will cause this stuff to grow just about anywhere.

I agree -- mold. Had this stuff inside plastic tender shells and on Baldwin disc wheels on a 726 Berkshire. WD-40 and scrubbing with an old tooth brush took care of it on the metal wheels. BTW if you don't clean it right, it will return.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and comments everyone.  Myabe it was mold - interesting idea I had not thought of, but it was hard to scrape off with a #11 blade, even when softened with lube oil, so maybe not.  Anyway, as I said earlier, it had no corrosion inside, so I cleaned the stuff off, checked it out, and then had it pull my track cleaning train (vacuum car plus three track cleaner cars) for about 30 minutes.  Ran perfect.  It's now back on the shelf.  I'll check it in a week or so to see if the stuff has returned. 

I found a white hard crusty 'growth' on some older die cast trucks and wheels of cars (tank and gondola) ......they were on items I had stored.....and did not see any use.....but kinda freaked me as it looked like it grew onto the parts......is this the 'efflorescence' stuff??? And what the heck is that???? Toxic??? THX

Older Lionel products built around the 1940 time frame occasionally had minerals in the metal and resultingly produced poor casts.  It showed up us as a white residue on the bodies.  That's a long time ago......

It looked like tropical rot!!   I am glad it cleaned up.

...keep the rails polished...

So, Lee - do you have cats?

Zinc oxide? I doubt its lead oxide..

This afternoon, I checked all of my other major locos - about 75 of them. I found this same type of corrosion - or what certainly looks just like it, all over the front axle of the pilot truck on my Southern Crescent (just on the axle, with nothing on the wheels or the frame of the pilot truck or anywhere else.  It was rather thick - about a mm, and enough to clog up the bearings to the point the axle and wheels did not want to turn (although firm finger force would move them).  Copious amounts of Lionel lube plus lots of work rolling the wheels around and wiggling the axle side to side forth through the little bit of play it had eventually freed it up nicely.  After cleaning off all the lube I could, I ran the thing for an hour - it was superb as always - and plan to run it a lot this weekend, then check it again.  I had not run that loco for about two months, probably.  

That was a full afternoon. Tomorrow I will check about two dozen smaller, older including some postwar, that I have on my shelves in my workshop but they aren't as important as I don't intend to run most of them

Hi Lee, they will become important if and when you decide to sell them, so you should address the problem asap

What I don't get is what is causing this. Is there any possibility that some corrosive fumes are in the air? I worked at a printing plant many years ago and we had something like this happen to the copper in the electrical breaker boxs that all sat on the same wall. The cause was obvious, they where doing electrostatic copper coating in the same room where the breaker boxs where and the sulfuric acid fumes got into the copper buss bars in the panels.

What we did was to build a partition isolating the panels in a room by them selves and blowing out side air into said closet. This provided a possitive air pressure into the closet thus keeping the acidic air away from the breaker boxs and it worked like a charm.

I doubt if this is what is causing your problem, but you may wont to look at your AC panels and copper switches and outlets in your train room to see if this white stuff shows up there.

Good luck buddy and please don't take this as me trying to scare you but better safe then sorry. People have all types of hobbies such as ecthing their own circuit boards and I have no idea how such processes could effect the atmosphere in a closed room.

quote:

The cause was obvious, they where doing electrostatic copper coating in the same room where the breaker boxs where and the sulfuric acid fumes got into the copper buss bars in the panels.

How were the people who worked there being protected?

After that the Union got them to issue face masks and a roof ventilation systems but I left them a few months later and have no idea what happened after that.

They where called JB Slevins but closed down about twenty years ago, I worked there for only about six months total in eighty-one or eighty-two.

The more I think about it as a chemical reaction, could this be the after effect of the Simple Green debacle? 

Or cat pee?  A cat can eat a hole in brass, or peel the paint off of factory baked 21"cars.

thanks gg1man.  I'm not concerned about resale value as I will never sell any of them, but I want those I intend to run to be in top condition.  

As I said I checked about 80 locos so far.  Only two have any trace of the problem - they were kept on different shelves in different parts of the trainroom.  In both cases, the "corrosion" was intense but limited to a very small area on the bottom of the loco.

What I think happened?  They were each at some time placed on a tabletop or workbench that had, unnoticed by me, some puddles of liquid - what I don't know - that moistened them and caused the problem.  I can't believe I would be that careless but it is possible if I was distracted.  Anyway, I base this mostly on the fact that the corrosion in only on the very lowest areas, and very concentrated as to area in both cases.  In particular, on the Southern Crescent, it heavily covered the first axle on the pilot truck but the second axle - only 1 1/2 inch away and electrically connected to the same pilot truck, etc, was squeaky clean.  Hard to see how galvanic action or any type of air-dispersed toxin could be so selective, but easy to see how a puddle of "goop" could have touched or splattered one axle and not the other.

That is not a wholly satisfactory hypothesis but the best I have now.   Just now, I thought to check two locos I have here in my study downstairs (Lincoln funeral train, my Dad's 1930s Marx wind up set) and both are clean.  Tomorrow I will check the roughly two dozen locos on shelves in my workshop, and all my rolling stock. 

I had the same thing show up on a Lionel General which has made it inoperable at this point.

(Mental note to self - don't get a cat).

This is not the cause of Lee's problem but this thread is a good place to mention the importance of never accidentally leaving a bottle of muriatic acid with the cap off in a train room or anywhere else for that matter.  There are cases of machine shops that have  had every machine covered with a film of rust over a weekend due to muriatic acid fumes in the air from an open container.  Since muriatic acid is often used to prep concrete floors prior to painting, it's not unusual to find a bottle tucked away somewhere.

Lee, do you have cats? A LHS had cats running around the store, on shelves, and everywhere it seemed. Who knows what they do? 

They pee on things.  It is a territorial ritual.  I have had corrosion localized just like Lee due to cats not feeling well and hitting things.  One of my K-Line hoppers got hit in a corner - ate the paint, then produced the white residue.

No cats guys. We are not "cat people."  

YES, conrad, good advise re: muriatic acid and other chemicals. I once aquired 5 1gal bottles of mu acid, free, put them in loft of a rented garage[ this was a dry garage]  along with misc various auto parts  10" apart from the mu.  went to retrieve something 9 mo. later,  anything metal showed a LOT of corrosion.  its nasty stuff. LEE, any chemicals in your train room?

ment to say 10 feet  not 10 inches 

Hi Lee, glad you sorted this. Any chance we could see a pic of your track cleaning train?

 I have seen vacuum cars in OO gauge but not in 3 rail O. 

Nick

It sure looks like zinc oxide.  Either moisture or mild acid vapors could cause the problem. The chance of this happening could be reduced by keeping a light coat of high quality oil on the metal surfaces.