Apparently dead 20-3044-1 PS2.0 UP 844 4-8-4 from year 2000

As with any MTH engine- monitor current draw when powering.

Most likely it's dead, just like the dozens and dozens of others for sale on ebay and so forth. This is a well known failure.

Again, basic testing, any engine really.

You power up on a conventional only track, no DCS and check for current draw. Either really high or really low- more like none at powering on. If you have none- it's already burned out so badly the circuit is open.

I seem to recall this is one with the Proto 5v boards mounted to the top of the boiler, instead of the tender.

A Proto 3/2 board with 5v connectors should fix it up, along with a speaker change out.  Some of us service centers still have boards in stock.

Jim

Be careful recommending the PS32 board, it may be a tight fit.  Also, at least one of the harnesses may have to be lengthened to reach the connectors.  I just put a 3V board I had in my MTH Q2, I looked at the PS32 board, but it was going to be a significant PITA to fit it in there.  The 484 is a smaller boiler, so it could be problematic.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Be careful recommending the PS32 board, it may be a tight fit.  Also, at least one of the harnesses may have to be lengthened to reach the connectors.  I just put a 3V board I had in my MTH Q2, I looked at the PS32 board, but it was going to be a significant PITA to fit it in there.  The 484 is a smaller boiler, so it could be problematic.

Yip, I recall wires had to be extended, board mounting different too.  Not a show stopper.

Jim

You may have to go this route:

https://ogrforum.com/...-s-champion-hack-job

Mitch

@Jim Sandman posted:

Yip, I recall wires had to be extended, board mounting different too.  Not a show stopper.

Jim

Not for you or I, but perhaps for someone that's hoping to just plug the board in.

Thanks for the responses.  On conventional test track at 16v, current draw is absolutely zero.  So, dead.  I read the PS3 conversion kit installation instructions online this morning.  Even for someone experienced with careful attention to details around electronics and a few TMCC conversions done, the opportunities for something to damage the board are notable.  Cost for professional installation plus shipping are considerable.

The ERRCo conversion to TMCC with Cruise Commander board and Heavy Steam sounds looks like a good match, and I know that work already.  Thoughts on that choice?

Unless you're willing to dispense with chuffing smoke, you'll have to spend additional money and time for the full TMCC upgrade over the PS/3 upgrade.  You need a chuff switch, and for chuffing smoke, you need to add a controller to manage that.

Obviously, if you go TMCC, I'd recommend my products for the chuff and smoke control, the Chuff-Generator and the Super-Chuffer II.

GRJ: So, even though I don’t use smoke, I need that hardware to get my 4 chuffs per revolution?  If so adding whatever minimum hardware you offer sounds good, for the sound but not the smoke.

If you just want 4-chuffs, you can use the Chuff-Generator and a small 5VDC power module, it doesn't need the Super-Chuffer to function.  You'll just have continuous smoke if you turn it on, but you will have the audio.

So, a 5v DC voltage regulator board of the common type, or a specific "power module"?  The smoke unit heater will not be wired for power in my case, so no switch will be needed.

You just need a source of pure 5VDC at around 30-40 milliamps for the Chuff-Generator.  I roll my own little power modules for stuff like this.

I know that Lionel has stand-alone 5V power modules that run from track power, these two are still available.

As long as your module comes with instructions (suspect it does), would prefer yours along with your Chuff-Generator.  How do I order? I happen to have the ERRCo boards in hand, turns out the heavy steam is not suitable for the engine I had it for but perfect for the UP 844.

Do all ERRCo steam boards need additional hardware to control chuffs per revolution?  If so I might need more of your items. Thanks

If you don't have a chuff switch, then the ERR stuff requires you add one.  You can do that in a variety of ways, however I personally found the other methods unsatisfactory and less reliable.  I used to put four magnets on a driver with a reed switch, but that sometimes was difficult, in an extreme case, I had to drill countersunk holes for the magnets to clear the frame.  You can also put a magnet on a tender wheel and a reed switch on the truck to generate the chuffs.  For Lionel with 2-chuffs, some folks have 3D printed a cam to make the chuff switch generate 4 chuffs.  However, I chose to go another way and design the Chuff-Generator.

My little power supply isn't a "stock" item, but I can sell you a couple.  I don't actually have instructions for it, but it's so simple that I never saw the need.

Frame ground is the black arrow, and that's common with the negative output of the supply.  Since TMCC chuff signals are frame ground referenced, it's mandatory for the negative DC output voltage also be frame ground referenced.

The orange arrow is the track center roller input power.

The red arrow is the 5VDC output.

The DC outputs go to the power inputs of the Chuff-Generator, the chuff output of the Chuff-Generator replaces the mechanical chuff switch.  The chuff Generator only has three connections to the locomotive, 5VDC power, ground, and the chuff output.  In the graphic below, the red is the power, green is the chuff output, and the blue is ground.

Very clear, thank you.  Where should I go to order the chuff generator and power modules?

Know unit to fail.  I have put plenty of PS-32 in the shell to retain all functions.  It can be done.  G

@cnwdon posted:

Very clear, thank you.  Where should I go to order the chuff generator and power modules?

You can get them from me.

@GGG posted:

Know unit to fail.  I have put plenty of PS-32 in the shell to retain all functions.  It can be done.  G

Since George has MS-32 boards, that's the cheapest way to go and restore full function.  It's also a lot less work, even if you do it yourself.

Thank you both.  Have sent George an email requesting info re: PS 3/2 board.  

GRJ, I will need your chuff generator and p 5v power module for two other locos I’m doing with ERRCo.  Maybe three or four, if they can be added to any of the oldest TMCC locos that only have one chuff per revolution.  I see the chuff generator on the Hennings/JW&A website.  

How should I go about paying you for the power modules, 2 (or more as above) of them?

Also I see two different TMCC battery replacements.  They look like capacitor packs, as I would assume they would be.  What are the applications for the “regular” and “lite” versions?  And do they help with chuff “drop-out” as happens even with clean track and no apparent reason?  A charming little behavior that I would love to do without.

Lots of questions, as usual Thanks

Don

Like I said, drop me an email and we'll fix you up with the stuff you need.

As for the batteries, they are identical in function, the only difference is one has the 9V battery clip, and the other has the mating connector for the RS-Lite board used in Legacy equipment, and also used with the ERR RailSounds Commander.  The one with the 9V battery clip is used for TMCC and early Legacy applications that have the 9V battery cable.

The whole purpose of the YLB is precisely what you stated, especially for TMCC/Legacy steamers with the wireless drawbar.

Break from the workbench.  Hain’t no prototype photos showing a whistle cord on a UP FEF; must be a whistle steam valve controlled from cab and out of sight.  So, gave up that little plan.  Kapton tape and nylon screws to the rescue.  Have tender body well-insulated from frame.

Really wanted to use the MTH plug/tether, and believe that’s solved. It has four ~22 ga wires that should serve adequately for short run from plug to Cruise Commander board in tender, for motor plus center rail hot and outside rail common jumpers between engine and tender. Only other wire is chuff generator output, using one of the tiny wires.  Now all 5 will be color coded across the plug. Soldering to pads on engine receptacle done and all are isolated from each other.  Plan to add one or two rollers under tender, for passenger terminal multiple-switches dead spot opportunities, and maybe tender axle wiper(s) if any significant resistance between tender frame and outside rails when tested.  Will use the 9 volt battery, too, for extra sound insurance. ERRCo instructions are great for diesels, but definitely DIY (and think it out yourself, too), for steam.  You fellows truly earn your keep doing this work!

In addition to the wires you mention, my standard install includes the headlight control and of course, the smoke output from the Cruise Commander.

Yes, thanks, forgot the headlight hot wire from board’s “front light” terminal.  The so-called “Mars light” is really a red emergency light illuminated when brakes are in emergency to alert oncoming trains to slow for possible derailed cars in their path, so that’s being left dark.  I’m leaving the smoke unit out, will save it in my extra parts bag for the loco for now.  Do not use smoke despite its charm, very much.  Sent you a private email re: challenge with chuff generator install.  Don’t know if I cooked something, or why I’m. having trouble.

Continuing saga of this installation.....After my own missteps and the first chuff generator board not functioning, started fresh with a second brand new C-G board and sensor.  This time I pre-wired it with leads for +/- 5v and chuff signal output and tied sensor loosely so I could position on motor and set clearance.  Managed to foul up the first super glue attachment (wire leads had board cocked at a slight angle that I failed to notice) and discovered it after soldering sensor leads and confirming function, but was able to reposition with pointed soldering tip gently pressing down on sensor with tiny screwdriver that served as a heat sink too, I guess.  5v power supply fit nicely on top of gearbox cover tied to track leads nearby.  Function was again confirmed after sensor clearance adjusted and resoldering.  I am using a Kester no-clean liquid flux and Kester 316 degree F melting point rosin core solder, with Hakko soldering station set at 440 deg F which has been calibrated using a genuine Hakko tip thermometer (temp was about 50 deg F off before recalibrating). (Thermometer cost more than the soldering station! :-)

Then on with multiple TMCC install steps and eventually when testing realized I hadn't calibrated the chuffs per revolution setting when I got just random chuffs, none related to driver revolutions.  Went back and did calibration which went as the instructions explain it with red LED "on", turning motor till 1/4 of a driver revolution.  On final testing have no chuffs at all, so don't know what failed, at what point along this path.  Connections from 5v power supply, powering C-G circuit and to chuff input on TMCC board are all intact.

Otherwise install has also been "interesting".  No head or rear lights alive, and don't get a V reading at terminals for those on TMCC board.  All work done with grounding wrist strap on antistatic mat, no static shocks along the way.  No shorting of any terminals on the boards during work.  Whistle, bell, rear coupler all work fine as does very fine 100 step speed control.  I had replaced HL bulb with a 12 or 14v grain of rice size bulb.  Gave up on that and powered headlight bulb from track 18v AC with 68 ohm resistor that keeps it a bit under 12v at bulb so it will live a long life.

Other TMCC installs have been smoother. This one seems a bit star-crossed!  Even the second C-G install was not the best, but it seemed to be working when clearance tested. Not sure what died or when.

Neglected to post the finale to this.  Finally used chuff magnets per ERRCo usual, tender wheels close to half driver diameter so 2 magnets.  Worked like a charm. Close enough to 4 chuffs per revolution that it’s hard to tell any difference.  After that, though, at first still no chuff even though other sounds incl whistle/bell fine.  Oops. Discovered chuff volume is lower for no evident reason, had to turn overall sound volume up to get chuff.   Possible that chuff generator was working all along and I couldn’t hear it.  Happy now so not going back to reconnect and retest (maybe later after other projects).  In any case this engine is now a delightful beast that pulls an 8 car aluminum City of LA with ease, and sounds great.  My first steam TMCC conversion, now I’m brave enough to do more of them :-)

NOW, I have a year 2000 PS2.0 City of San Francisco E6 ABA set that added to the remote fine on a test track, then on mainline with same TIU and remote on “Start Up” I get “Engine not on track”.  Deleted, re-added on test track and it functioned fine again (horn, bell, diesel sound and movement) but back to main where others work great including other PS2 engines and “Engine Not on Track.”  Is this an early PS2 5 volt board signal problem I’m not familiar with?  New thread started “early PS2 5 volt board signal problem?” Can’t find reference to that as a topic so far.

@cnwdon posted:

…New thread started “early PS2 5 volt board signal problem?” Can’t find reference to that as a topic so far.

It’s here: Early PS2 5 volt board signal problem?

FYI, steam ERR railsounds lite boards have code similar to Legacy. By that I mean specifically chuff can be separately adjusted compared to overall volume using AUX1 and then 1 (up) and 4 (down). Another fact, this digital adjustment is retained during conventional operation. I had a club member who had a complete ERR upgrade (cruise + railsounds) and complained of no chuff. Turns out, the accidently hit the TMCC commands (aux1 and 4 ) and turned it all the way down to off.

@cnwdon posted:

NOW, I have a year 2000 PS2.0 City of San Francisco E6 ABA set that added to the remote fine on a test track, then on mainline with same TIU and remote on “Start Up” I get “Engine not on track”.  Deleted, re-added on test track and it functioned fine again (horn, bell, diesel sound and movement) but back to main where others work great including other PS2 engines and “Engine Not on Track.”  Is this an early PS2 5 volt board signal problem I’m not familiar with?  New thread started “early PS2 5 volt board signal problem?” Can’t find reference to that as a topic so far.

Yes, known failure. Simple to explain. The add engine function both adds the engine to the DCS remote but ALSO commands the engine to listen for that ID slot. The problem is, that is only in processor RAM. That new ID in the engine is NOT stored until the power down sequence where power is lost at the track and the BATTERY powers the proceessor to write the ID to permanent storage during the orderly shutdown. If you have a non-functioning battery subsystem that cannot complete this step- the engine forgets that new ID. Instead it boots with whatever ID was in storage peviously, and thus NOW is a mismatch to the database ID in your remote for that engine.

@Vernon Barry posted:

Yes, known failure. Simple to explain. The add engine function both adds the engine to the DCS remote but ALSO commands the engine to listen for that ID slot. The problem is, that is only in processor RAM. That new ID in the engine is NOT stored until the power down sequence where power is lost at the track and the BATTERY powers the proceessor to write the ID to permanent storage during the orderly shutdown. If you have a non-functioning battery subsystem that cannot complete this step- the engine forgets that new ID. Instead it boots with whatever ID was in storage peviously, and thus NOW is a mismatch to the database ID in your remote for that engine.

True, but it's simple to recover from this, just replace the battery with a working one, delete the engine from the remote, and add it again.  PS/2 is not normally prone to being permanently scrambled by a bad battery.

PS3 engines work the same way- so a failing supercapacitor system on PS3 can result similar symptom the engine can be added, run for a session a long as power is never lost, but then if you power it up later- the remote or app cannot find that engine at that ID. You re-add the engine- now it increments an ID, but again, only good for that power session.